Pope Gets it Wrong on Islam
Pope Benedict's speech at Regensburg University, which mentioned Islam and jihad, has provoked a firestorm of controversy.
The address is more complex and subtle than the press on it represents. But let me just signal that what is most troubling of all is that the Pope gets several things about Islam wrong, just as a matter of fact.
He notes that the text he discusses, a polemic against Islam by a Byzantine emperor, cites Qur'an 2:256: "There is no compulsion in religion." Benedict maintains that this is an early verse, when Muhammad was without power.
His allegation is incorrect. Surah 2 is a Medinan surah revealed when Muhammad was already established as the leader of the city of Yathrib (later known as Medina or "the city" of the Prophet). The pope imagines that a young Muhammad in Mecca before 622 (lacking power) permitted freedom of conscience, but later in life ordered that his religion be spread by the sword. But since Surah 2 is in fact from the Medina period when Muhammad was in power, that theory does not hold water.
In fact, the Qur'an at no point urges that religious faith be imposed on anyone by force. This is what it says about the religions:
' [2:62] Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians-- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. '
See my comments On the Quran and peace.
The idea of holy war or jihad (which is about defending the community or at most about establishing rule by Muslims, not about imposing the faith on individuals by force) is also not a Quranic doctrine. The doctrine was elaborated much later, on the Umayyad-Byzantine frontier, long after the Prophet's death. In fact, in early Islam it was hard to join, and Christians who asked to become Muslim were routinely turned away. The tyrannical governor of Iraq, al-Hajjaj, was notorious for this rejection of applicants, because he got higher taxes on non-Muslims. Arab Muslims had conquered Iraq, which was then largely pagan, Zoroastrian, Christian and Jewish. But they weren't seeking converts and certainly weren't imposing their religion.
The pope was trying to make the point that coercion of conscience is incompatible with genuine, reasoned faith. He used Islam as a symbol of the coercive demand for unreasoned faith.
But he has been misled by the medieval polemic on which he depended.
In fact, the Quran also urges reasoned faith and also forbids coercion in religion. The only violence urged in the Quran is in self-defense of the Muslim community against the attempts of the pagan Meccans to wipe it out.
The pope says that in Islam, God is so transcendant that he is beyond reason and therefore cannot be expected to act reasonably. He contrasts this conception of God with that of the Gospel of John, where God is the Logos, the Reason inherent in the universe.
But there have been many schools of Islamic theology and philosophy. The Mu'tazilite school maintained exactly what the Pope is saying, that God must act in accordance with reason and the good as humans know them. The Mu'tazilite approach is still popular in Zaidism and in Twelver Shiism of the Iraqi and Iranian sort. The Ash'ari school, in contrast, insisted that God was beyond human reason and therefore could not be judged rationally. (I think the Pope would find that Tertullian and perhaps also John Calvin would be more sympathetic to this view within Christianity than he is).
As for the Quran, it constantly appeals to reason in knowing God, and in refuting idolatry and paganism, and asks, "do you not reason?" "do you not understand?" (a fala ta`qilun?)
Of course, Christianity itself has a long history of imposing coerced faith on people, including on pagans in the late Roman Empire, who were forcibly converted. And then there were the episodes of the Crusades.
Another irony is that reasoned, scholastic Christianity has an important heritage from Islam itself. In the 10th century, there was little scholasticism in Christian theology. The influence of Muslim thinkers such as Averroes (Ibn Rushd) and Avicenna (Ibn Sina) reemphasized the use of Aristotle and Plato in Christian theology. Indeed, there was a point where Christian theologians in Paris had divided into partisans of Averroes or of Avicenna, and they conducted vigorous polemics with one another.
Finally, that Byzantine emperor that the Pope quoted, Manuel II? The Byzantines had been weakened by Latin predations during the fourth Crusade, so it was in a way Rome that had sought coercion first. And, he ended his days as a vassal of the Ottoman Empire.
The Pope was wrong on the facts. He should apologize to the Muslims and get better advisers on Christian-Muslim relations.

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31 Comments:
What does the majority of islamic scholars believe in - that God is beyond reason or otherwise?
Also, if Jihad is not Quranic, where does it stand in terms of legitimacy? Why is there a large number of scholars who hold the concept dearly? And if that is true, does it matter if it is Quranic or not?
I am no scholar - just trying to get information.
Can't make a comment on the pope's knowledge of the Quran or the other statements about the dialogue, but he quotes "According to the experts, this is one of the suras of the early period," and "The editor, Theodore Khoury, observes: For the emperor, as a Byzantine shaped by Greek philosophy, this statement is self-evident. But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality. Here Khoury quotes a work of the noted French Islamist R. Arnaldez, who points out that Ibn Hazn..." I am sure he would be open to the differing positions, also the one you states, but he is clearly relying on "experts" .
As I said in a diary here, he should not have used the quote, but as I read it, he uses the quote as an illustration of a way of thinking typical at that time, not as a statement of fact on Islam.
Quoting someone, does not necessarily mean one agrees with all aspects of what is transmitted on the literal level.
When I quote Bush and use this as an example of Neo-Con thinking and to put it into historical context, that does not mean that I agree with his overall statement.
Especially if I make a derogatory statement about it in the introduction to the quote.
"wendet er sich in erstaunlich schroffer, uns überraschend schroffer Form ganz einfach mit der zentralen Frage nach dem Verhältnis von Religion und Gewalt überhaupt an seinen Gesprächspartner"
"startling brusque, a us surprisingly brusque form" (brusque? Schroff is a rather old fasioned word in German, which however has been used in the past to describe the exact opposite of "cool".
the English translation provided "he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general," removes the inclusive, "us", that is clearly used (to me), to show that he makes a disaproving value statement that includes his thinking on this. He (the pope) would never (I suggest) use those quoted words as an expression of his own thinking on the verbal, descriptive level of the quote.
"He used Islam as a symbol of the coercive demand for unreasoned faith." As I said before, he should not have used that example, but, he obviously just happend to read a treatise on this when he drafted the speech. "I was reminded of all this recently, when I read the edition by Professor Theodore Khoury (Münster) of part of the dialogue... ... The dialogue ranges widely... only one point ... itself rather marginal to the dialogue as a whole - which, in the context of the issue of *faith and reason*, I found interesting and which can serve as the starting-point for my reflections on this issue." But why is he quoteing this? to: "Is the conviction that acting unreasonably contradicts God's nature merely a Greek idea, or is it always and intrinsically true?" that is the reason, why he quotes this dialogue. Is this (the emperor's) thinking a Greek idea, or Biblical?
The other aspect of this speech is the ongoing discussion in Germany about the status of Theology in the University. He uses this speech to make a statement about this ongoing discussion, reasserting the need of Theology to be thought in the scientific environment of the University.
I have no use for religion in general, and I certainly consider any form of monotheism complete crap. The "mono-" part, you see, just loses me at the outset. This means, of course, that I put no stock in anything said by parasitic popes, rabbis, ministers, preachers, or imams. Nonetheless, in the interests of accuracy and fairness, you might want to constrain your apologetics for Islamic jihad by noting the complete wipe out of Buddhism in India by Muslim armies who slaughtered the monks at Nalanda University and wrote glowingly later: "In their eagerness to do battle with us, the brown-robed soldiers came out of their fortress without their weapons; so we easily dispatched them." Throw in a few Taliban-dynamited Buddhist statues in Afghanistan -- "just rocks" -- and you get a good idea of Islamic tolerance for non-violent religions and their iconography.
None of this excuses Christians or Jews for their unconscionable abuse of Muslims, but let us not go too far the other way and ascribe to Muslims some sort of saintliness that they don't deserve either.
A well informed and enlightening article.
The western world and the media in particular, is deeply immersed into Islamophobia. Perhaps the key rule being forgotten is that if one wants to live peacefully, one must let others live peacefully too. I was surprised by the Pope's views.
The religions of 'the books' are to be respected equally by all Muslims. It's a pity that these religions of 'the books' are the same ones at each other's throats.
Dear Sir,
There are several points that can be adressed concerning you post but what needs to be said is that on several points you are misinformed or you simply misinform others with a vague ambiguity. Concerning the role of Islam and Scholasticism you seem to be in the dark. The Aristotelian corpus was known and numerous attempts were made to bring in into philosophical currency via Boethius put his project sadly ended with the logical works alone. The decay of the Empire, literacy, social infrastructure and the instability of the age--heightened by the Islamic scourge--left a paucity of Greek manuscripts in the hands of the Irish monks and Byzantine scholars. The latter were in the very regions of the Islamic expansion, which lead to exposure, by means of Greater and Lesser Anotolia and Egypt. The fact that Muslims scholars had these manuscripts and translated them into Arabic, then latter translated into Latin by the Scholastics, says nothing of Islamic novelty other than the appelation: commentator. Averroes, Moses Maimonides and Ibn Rushd commented upon Aristotle and did not truely add any depth to him other than their religious project such as the eternity of the world and creation ex nihilo, the latter concept flowing from Judaism, Catholicism and then to Islam.
Finally, because I cannot spend all day rebutting your vague ambiguity, how can you even pretend to assert that the Islamic scholars 'reemphasized' Plato in Catholicism? Perhaps you should just say that you think the Muslim scholars had the right direction in Neo-Platonism in respect to Plotinus, Proclus and Monism. How do you square Pseudo-Dionysius with a 'reemphasis' of Plato and Catholicism? The University of Paris issue is simply a matter of controversies, again primarily religious, over the commentaries of the Islamic scholars and a common strain of religious opinion since, "The Conversation" was between Islam and Catholicism since Judaism was in eclipse.
"And then there were the episodes of the Crusades." So you say. Well, please say more, are you relying on group think and group opinion concerning this topic? It is complicated. Your sentence suggests a blithe indifference to any other opinion than the one you perhaps hope is latent in the minds of your audience? I should hope not for that would not be a "Informed Comment"
I agree with the assessment that the Pope comments shows a basic misunderstanding of Islam. And, that they had a detrimental impact on his message of non-violence in religion. http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0605258.htm It seems the Church is starting to back track now, but it should really issue an apology.
I would like to add in an institution as powerful and as ancient as the Church, there is bound to be horrific abuses. Few institutions have endured as long, nor have they had such power. What the Church has done in the past is no more an example of the teachings of our faith than what suicide bombers do is a representation of Islam and the Koran. Both are based on corruptions of teachings and text. Part of the problem with what the Pope has said, is the reluctance to totally refute past errors, or even to recognize them. So, all those of us in the Church can do is to keep working towards the eradication of these errors.
I think, however, it is important not to frame what was said in the horrors of the Church’s past, as the Muslim Council has done.
However, the secretary-general of the Central Council of Muslims in Germany, Aiman Mazyek, said he did not see the lecture as an attack on Muslims.
Mazyek told the German newspaper: "Against the background of the bloody forced Christianization in South America, the Crusades in the Muslim world, the co-option of the church by the Hitler regime, even the invention of the expression 'holy war,' which originally comes from the mouth of (Pope) Urban II, it would fill me with some concern if the church would come and take a superior attitude to the extremist activities of other religious communities."
Instead we should look at the Churches current actions.
I say this because to do so is to miss an opportunity. When Zionist Christian Churches host guest speakers that stir up Anti-Arab and Anti- Muslim sentiment for Michigan’s large Arab population, it is Catholic churches like St. Michael and St. Angela that hold open interfaith initiatives to undo the damage and to give the Muslims an opportunity to address Christians about their faith. Prior to the Iraq War, it was Bishop Quinn who reminded those attending his mass that Iraqis were human and to put the vilification by the media into perspective. He asked us to pray for the Iraqis and reminded us of the harsh living conditions they already endured secondary to the embargos. He reminded us of the debate that there was not justification for invasion and the Churches position in opposition to the war. During the Lebanese war this summer, when all Americans heard was about the bad conditions for Israel, the Pope kept his message of peace awake in the Churches. He condemned the killing of innocent Lebanese, without regard to religion. These things should not be overlooked, though they do not justify what was said.
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in response to michauel murry - this is the first time that I've read professor cole's blog, and I found his comments regarding the pope's speech fair and well reasoned (ironically more so than the pope's, who calls for an intermarriage betweeen faith and reason and yet doesn't seem too strong in the latter). I read the intitial entry in your blog, and judging from that, I suspect that in general my views lean more toward yours than they do toward either the pope's or professor cole's. nevertheless - or perhaps because of this - I feel inclined to point out the importance of not confusing christians with christianity, or muslims with islam. the self-declared practitioners of religions often do things in the name of religion that is in fact (or at least, seemingly by popular interpretation) contrary to it. for instance, it seems that most supporters of the war in iraq are from the christian right, and they seem not to see a contradiction between their faith and their support of a violent response to a perceived threat, and yet I remember something about turning the other cheek (which of course would seem exceptionally premature when the first had not yet been slapped by the non-existent wmd). the problem of religiously motivated violence lies not so much in the religions themselves, but in their practitioners - which include the clergy and the clerics, who consistently seem to fumble the ball when it comes to interpretation. the pope seems blind to the violent tendencies rife among his own flock and thereby unempathetic to the responses of some muslims - he seems to be looking at christianity as a religion and islam only as the actions of some of it's followers - neglecting to look at the actions of some christians and the theology of islam.
While I would not argue that Christianity has a legacy of forced conversion, the implication that the crusades are an example of such behavior seems an odd one. Conversion was not a principle aim of the crusading movements. Crusade and conversion were two very separate responses by the Latin Christians to the perceived threat of Islam, at least, if we believe the work of scholars like Benjamin Kedar.
While their were certainly forced conversion that accompanied crusading ventures, especially against Jewish populations within the Latin West, such conversions generally took place without the consent of the military leaders, and against the edicts of the papacy. And, just like al-Hajjaj, there were Latin leaders who were keenly aware of the practical advantages of preventing the conversion of the Muslim subjects. (Roger I of Sicily baring St. Anslem from speaking to his Muslim troops, springs to mind) I think that the overall message of this post is laudable, but this detail seems off.
The Holy See's slip is showing. While it can pretend to make such assertions under cover of theological hair-splitting, a look at the larger picture reveals otherwise:
First, the Quran states that Muslims must have a direct one-to-one relationship with God, in contrast with the Vatican, which has always gone to great lengths to position itself as God's sole interpreter on earth, the necessary mediator between Man and God.
Second, the Crusades were nothing, if not the mother of all Christian Jihads. While religious issues were the stated cause, the overarching rationale was political in nature, designed to strengthen monarchies and the Church alike, by turning their warring lordships away from each other, and pointing them towards the Middle East.
Finally, debating the equation of the Crusades with forced conversions is a red herring, as the Crusaders tended to favor slaughtering non-believers, rather than converting them. Viz the First Crusade, when Jerusalem was taken, all its non-Christian inhabitants were slaughtered. In contrast, when Sal al Din retook Jerusalem, he did in fact spare the non-Muslim inhabitants, and the city was kept open for pilgrims during times of Muslim control.
What is wrong with pope? Even if he doesnot understand Quran, he must atleast have common sense in knowing what to say and what not to!
If he is wrong about the facts he just needs to issue a correction, not necessarily apologize. The people who go ballistic every time someone says something about Islam are the one who more urgently need to apologize. Why can't they just let things roll of their back and go about their business?
This post indicates a certain unfamiliarity with the history of Catholic theology, but considering that Prof. Cole isn't an expert in that field, I'm not too surprised and can give a pass.
With Bohemond, I am surprised, though, to read an implication that the Crusades were about forced conversions. As B. comments, they were about the threat of Islam to Christendom, which makes sense, considering the preceding four centuries, in which Muslim armies invaded previously-Christian lands.
Historian Thomas Madden has a few popular articles on the Crusades; I'd recommend one found here.
The Pope's speech primarily focuses on faith and reason, and one of the conclusions reached applies to all of the faiths discussed (Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Muslim).
"[T]he world’s profoundly religious cultures see this exclusion of the divine from the universality of reason as an attack on their most profound convictions. A reason which is deaf to the divine and which relegates religion into the realm of subcultures is incapable of entering into the dialogue of cultures."
(Also see here for my take.)
If I may be allowed a redirect. It is not an issue of the faultiness of history or doctrine. I see some very informative and well educated and researched peices. But, there is something missing that is beyond this realm.
It lacks the realm of responsability as a political leader and figure. The Pope is a public figure, a leader of a Church, and a People. He is not just a preacher, or a theologian, or a teacher, he is an official, a head of state. He should be well aware that his every word is publicized and examined. Especially during trips outside the Vatican. It was irresponsible to make such a statement which pundits could misconstrue given the context of world turmoil. In the world as it exists today, Muslims are beleaguered with the war of terrorism, conditions in Iraq, Afghanistan,Lebanon, Sudan, Palestine, ect.... to make such a comment. As a leader of the Church, he should have had the savy to pick another text, rather than alienate a people who are already under attack. It was horrible that he did not forsee the consequences. As a world leader, it was his job to help bring peace, not greater division.
http://athanasiuscm.blogspot.com/
In an article entitled "Benedict stirs up the pot..." sums up the point quite well I think.
Of course, Christianity itself has a long history of imposing coerced faith on people, including on pagans in the late Roman Empire, who were forcibly converted. And then there were the episodes of the Crusades.
What utter hogwash. Even if it were so, that was a THOUSAND years ago. In case you hadn't noticed, times have changed for us since then. Even the Catholic Church has had "reformations" of its own, and that's not even addressing the Protestant reformation.
Juan Cole, you may know your Islamic history well, but you certainly don't apply logic, nor do you apparently know much outside of Islam. You go far out of your way to obfuscate reality with trivia. Certainly this may be true:
The Mu'tazilite school maintained exactly what the Pope is saying, that God must act in accordance with reason and the good as humans know them.
But seriously, so what? It's not the way the dominant "school" is operating today, is it? There are far more non-violent Muslims in the world than violent ones, but who's driving the train? Not the non-violent ones, that's for sure. Why are you so loathe to admit this is a problem, as the Pope has merely implied?
To "path less traveled":
Apologize? Apologize? For what? For having an opinion or belief that doesn't conform with Muslim demands? Because Muslims got their feelings hurt?
Funny how Pope Benedict speaks of coercion and violence, and what happens? Violence erupts, thereby proving his point. Apparently that's too challenging for Professor Cole and others, though; it's much easier to criticize Pope Benedict when you feel it's not taboo to do so (as opposed to the taboo on criticizing that which deserves it among Muslims).
There's just nothing like watching free men defend the oppressors in other cultures and decry that which they have the luxury of choosing as free men. Especially the so-called intellectuals who show no reason, no Logos, whatsoever.
I was startled to read in the second post, written by "J", that:
"schroff" is a rather old-fashioned word in German, which however has been used in the past to describe the exact opposite of "cool".
This is nonsense, on both accounts. "Schroff" is, if anything, an even more current and commonplace word in German than is the English word "brusque" that it was meant to translate. And the other claim, about "cool", is either a fabrication or a serious misunderstanding.
The sense of "schroff" that Benedict was trying to convey in this case was "brusque", as in "harsh", as in "putting it harshly".
I know that clarifications are futile, but couldn't help myself.
I was startled to read in the second post, written by "J", that:
"schroff" is a rather old-fashioned word in German, which however has been used in the past to describe the exact opposite of "cool".
This is nonsense, on both accounts. "Schroff" is, if anything, an even more current and commonplace word in German than is the English word "brusque" that it was meant to translate. And the other claim, about "cool", is either a fabrication or a serious misunderstanding.
The sense of "schroff" that Benedict was trying to convey in this case was "brusque", as in "harsh", as in "putting it harshly".
I know that clarifications are futile, but couldn't help myself.
-----"you might want to constrain your apologetics for Islamic jihad by noting the complete wipe out of Buddhism in India by Muslim armies who slaughtered the monks at Nalanda University and wrote glowingly later: "In their eagerness to do battle with us, the brown-robed soldiers came out of their fortress without their weapons; so we easily dispatched them."-----
It is interesting that the 'Moslems' who ravaged North India in the Middle Ages were the same tribesmen that earlier as pagans had ravaged Moslem Baghdad. And the Moslems didn't drive Buddhism out of India. The monks were considered an irrelevance and it withered away.
---"Also, if Jihad is not Quranic, where does it stand in terms of legitimacy? Why is there a large number of scholars who hold the concept dearly? And if that is true, does it matter if it is Quranic or not?"------
The word 'Jihad' means struggle. Armed struggle is only one branch of it. The conditions for armed struggle in defense of the faith (never to make conversions) has been discussed at length by Islamic scholars, as as the equivalent concept of Holy War by Christian theologians.
What does the Qur'an have to say about how non-believers should be treated? Atheists, say? Just curious...
The comments of Prof Cole seem to me OpenMinded.
He is also sympathizing with the good people of Islam.
I hope, many can follow him, and millions of Muslims, too, are able to sympathize will all humanity.
Empathy is a good act.
I agree that the Manuel II quote was perhaps not the best one to make when talking about coercion and religion.
But at the same time, everyone's learned the lessons of the Danish cartoons and how thin skinned the Islamic World is. As a result, I very much doubt Benedict wouldn't have deliberately criticised Islam and put Middle East christians at risk. Hence his use of quotation marks several times to make clear that the comment wasn't his.
I do kind of think things have moved on though from whether Benedict was right or wrong and whether he should apologise or not. He has - well, sort of anyway - and groups like the Muslim Brotherhood have said it's not good enough.
So a question for JC: How do you see this panning out? Especially since there are lots of people in the Middle East who have an interest in having this carry on for a good few weeks longer.
Is there in fact any kind of apology that would be acceptable in the Muslim World?
According to news media and Vatcan apologist accounts of the Bishop of Rome's Regensberg lecture, the Byzantine quote (puns reserved) was somehow tangential to the subject of his address.
Well it wasn't. In Benedict's own words, it was the "starting point" of his reflections.
This profound sense of coherence (during his university days) within the universe of reason was not troubled, even when it was once reported that a colleague had said there was something odd about our university: it had two faculties devoted to something that did not exist: God.
That even in the face of such radical scepticism it is still necessary and reasonable to raise the question of God through the use of reason, and to do so in the context of the tradition of the Christian faith: this, within the university as a whole, was accepted without question.
I was reminded of all this recently, when I read the edition by Professor Theodore Khoury (Münster) of part of the dialogue carried on - perhaps in 1391 in the winter barracks near Ankara - by the erudite Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus and an educated Persian ...It is not my intention to discuss this question in the present lecture; here I would like to discuss only one point - itself rather marginal to the dialogue as a whole - which, in the context of the issue of "faith and reason", I found interesting and which can serve as the starting-point for my reflections on this issue....
Full Text
All the 3 main religions are guilty of using violence one-way or the other, then or now.
In the past 30 yrs or so the Judeo-Christian conspiracy have run amuok with guns and missiles against Muslims .
After all have been said and done, before and after 9/11 theres a surge in converts to Islam. Everyday in North America someone somewhere is taking the oath to Islam, Latinos are the latest adherents to Islam, in Catholic Philippines, thousands are reverting to 'Balik Islam', recalling the forced conversiosn of the Spanish conquerors, GI's stationed in the Mid East are converting, remember the British journalist kidnapped by the Taliban, she converted too.
In the end Truth conquers, without the sword, bombs or guns.
we made an analysis over the original Pope's speech transcript, then we realized that you've already done so, even better.
Hopefully reason will finally prevail over emotions, and Muslims will finally be able to see that the Pope has made even more mistakes than we originally thought; and act rationally.
It's scary to see that a scholar like Pope made basic mistakes like this. But we need to show that we are a forgiveful bunch, and we'll forget the past to build a better future.
J - "Quoting someone, does not necessarily mean one agrees"
Indeed, but you'll need to make sure to put that disclaimer, otherwise people may get the wrong impression.
Michael Murry - "Nonetheless, in the interests of accuracy and fairness, you might want to constrain your apologetics for Islamic jihad by noting the complete wipe out of Buddhism in India by Muslim armies who slaughtered the monks at Nalanda University"
Try to differentiate between Islam's teachings and the act of its followers.
We ( -- STILL -- ) have problems with forced conversion to Christianity here in Indonesia, but I understand that :
1. the original Christian teachings does not encourage this
2. the problem is with a few extremists, who seemed to have misinterpreted their faith.
Prof. Juan is not apologizing for us here, he's just saying things as it is.
One more error: it is ibn Hazm (with a final M, and not ibn Hazn as the Vatican text of the Pope's speech, and numerous learned bloggers, spell it, twice) -- the Muslim straw man whom the Pope knocks down.
I thought these two sentiments, posted one after the other, really cut to the heart of the "thin skin" of the Muslim people:
At 8:16 PM, Raj Kashikar said...
What is wrong with pope? Even if he does not understand Quran, he must at least have common sense in knowing what to say and what not to!
At 8:29 PM, cz said...
Why can't they just let things roll of their back and go about their business?
For more slander of Islam by Christian religious leaders, I heard an interview of Pastor Hagee on Fresh Air today. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6097362
Did you know that the Koran instructs Muslims to kill Jews and Christians. There 200 million Muslims that want to kill Jews and Christians.
He actually said that.
i dont think anyone having there own view and opinions about another ones faith is wrong we dont always have the right facts but in every case they dont. a race or religion who believe its right or ok to bomb inocent people in a almighty cause dosent even understand the basic rule in living.. in life.. not every one in a different religion to what we are or might be is right or wrong. whats good for one is most certainly good for the next. i personaly think religion is a definate form of segregation and nothing more.its the making of peace and war.freedom of speach is what we all should claim our own if nothing else.
Does the Pope really want a dialogue with Islam?
The amende honorable of the Pope in the form of a sincere regret expressed publicly did go a long way in containing a dangerous confrontation between Islam and Christianity. But what has gone unnoticed in the chaotic imbroglio is the Pope’s invitation to a “frank and sincere dialogue” with the Muslims. Not surprisingly, the Muslims masses under the misguidance of an extremist clergy were busy burning Churches and effigies of the Pope, and killing innocent nuns to have concentrated on countering the Pope through “reason” by accepting his invitation. It is time Muslims realized that violent or emotional reaction to attacks on Islam or its prophet is not the Islamic way. Now, with the Pope emphasizing in his meeting with Muslim envoys on Monday, Sep 25 that, “the inter-religious and inter-cultural dialogue between Christians and Muslims is, in effect, a vital necessity, on which a large part of our future depends", it has become all the more necessary to engage the Church in a “sincere and respectful” debate.
A careful reading of the Pope’s Sep 12 Regensburg address reveals that his entire speech revolved around the necessity “to raise the question of God through the use of reason, and to do so in the context of the tradition of the Christian faith” and it was in this context that the Pope wanted a dialogue “over the structures of faith contained in the Bible and in the Qur'an”, … “especially with the image of God and of man, while necessarily returning repeatedly to the relationship between - as they were called - three "Laws" or "rules of life": the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Qur'an.” What are being referred to here are Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Confining ourselves to a hermeneutical discussion on Islam and Christianity, the following are some of theological issues that need to be addressed by the Pope for a meaningful dialogue with Islam.
Claiming Islam to be a continuation of the message brought by Moses and Jesus, the Quran makes categorical statements on the life and person of Christ which have profound implications for Christian theology. First of all, Islam negates the concept of the Original Sin supposedly committed by Adam and Eve that necessitated the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross as vicarious atonement for the sins of mankind. The Quran declares that “no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another” (6:164). The truth is that it was Paul who perpetuated the belief of salvation through the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus (1 Corinthians 15:14) whereas Jesus himself says that God “will reward each person according to what he has done.” (Matthew 16:27). In fact the Quran challenges the very idea of crucifixion asserting that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified and that those who believe in his expiatory death “follow nothing but conjecture.”(4:157).
On the crucial issue of God the Quran strongly opposes the theanthropic status ascribed to Christ saying that he was no more than a messenger of God (4:171) and that it is blasphemy to believe in Trinity and the divine sonship of Jesus for there is only one God and it does not befit His status to sire a son and, nor does He need to beget a son (5:73-77, 19:88-92, 112:1-4). The Quran also records a future conversation between God and Jesus on the Day of Judgment wherein Jesus forcefully denies having ever claimed divinity either to either himself or his mother Mary (5:116-119). The truthfulness of this statement can be verified from the fact that in the all the four Gospels of the New Testament Jesus always refers to himself as “Son of Man” emphasizing his human nature. (Matthew 8:20, 17:22, 19:28, Mark 9:31, 14:21). Interestingly Bible editors have now excised as interpolation the word “begotten” from the oft-quoted verse John 3:16 which described Jesus as the “only begotten Son.” Not just that, the only reference in the entire Bible on Trinity in 1 John 5:7 has also been removed with the unceremonious explanation that the words “the Father, the Word and the Holy spirit, and these three are one” are “not found in any Greek manuscripts before the sixteenth century” (The N I V Quiet Time Bible, InterVarsity Press, Illinois, p.1557). It is common knowledge that the edifice of present day Christianity is based on Trinity and the begotten sonship of Christ and, with the removal of these foundational doctrines from the Bible, Christianity has come closer to the monotheism of Islam.
But how did these verses not preached by Jesus get interpolated into the Bible? Theologians such as Adolf Von Harnack believe that it was because of the strong influence of Greek Philosophy. But the Pope disagrees with Harnack’s thesis. In his Regensburg speech he disapprovingly declares, “Fundamentally, Harnack's goal was to bring Christianity back into harmony with modern reason, liberating it, that is to say, from seemingly philosophical and theological elements, such as faith in Christ's divinity and the triune God.”
Such an attempt to de-Hellenize Christianity and “to return to the simple message of the New Testament” says the Pope, “is not only false; it is coarse and lacking in precision. The New Testament was written in Greek and bears the imprint of the Greek spirit, which had already come to maturity as the Old Testament developed.” Therefore, the reluctance of the Pope to see “reason”, and with Biblical scholars of the caliber of Harnack coming to the same conclusion as the Quranic view of Christianity it has to be asked whether the Pope is really interested in a dialogue with Islam.
Kind attn editor: All quotes from the Pope are from his Sep.12 Regensburg speech.
By
A.FAIZUR RAHMAN
(Peace activist & Executive Committee member, Harmony India, an organization devoted to secularism and communal amity)
Email: a.faizur.rahman@gmail.com
Blog address: truth-for-thought.blogspot.com
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