Comments on: Top Things that would Redeem Obama’s Peace Prize http://www.juancole.com/2009/12/top-things-that-would-redeem-obama.html Thoughts on the Middle East, History and Religion Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:17:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: AswanDamn http://www.juancole.com/2009/12/top-things-that-would-redeem-obama.html#comment-1146 AswanDamn Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:23:34 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4829#comment-1146 Though in general I do agree with this piece, I object to the statement that "Palestinian statelessness is the biggest human rights scandal in the world." By my account, the population of the West Bank and Gaza put together is 5.2 million. Since 1998, 5.4 million have been killed in the eastern provinces of the Congo. Since January, 250000 have been displaced from their homes. People there live in constant fear. According to the report "Living With Fear" 53% of the people there report being enslaved by armed groups. 35% report being tortured. Scandalous though the Palestinian situation may be, it is exactly this kind of overemphasis on one problem to the exclusion of all others (be it Zionism, communist expansion, or indeed Israel/Palestine) which allows newer darker forces to emerge. If Obama is to redefine US foreign policy, he needs to deal with the WHOLE world as it is, not just the parts that seem important now. Though in general I do agree with this piece, I object to the statement that "Palestinian statelessness is the biggest human rights scandal in the world." By my account, the population of the West Bank and Gaza put together is 5.2 million. Since 1998, 5.4 million have been killed in the eastern provinces of the Congo. Since January, 250000 have been displaced from their homes. People there live in constant fear. According to the report "Living With Fear" 53% of the people there report being enslaved by armed groups. 35% report being tortured. Scandalous though the Palestinian situation may be, it is exactly this kind of overemphasis on one problem to the exclusion of all others (be it Zionism, communist expansion, or indeed Israel/Palestine) which allows newer darker forces to emerge. If Obama is to redefine US foreign policy, he needs to deal with the WHOLE world as it is, not just the parts that seem important now.

]]> By: GeneralOreo http://www.juancole.com/2009/12/top-things-that-would-redeem-obama.html#comment-1142 GeneralOreo Fri, 11 Dec 2009 04:42:41 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4829#comment-1142 Nothing shameful about killing people planning to attack you. I'm 100% for drone attacks. <br /><br />It's a shame progressives don't campaign like this and pretend to have a spine, the american people need to see the true nature of the left. Nothing shameful about killing people planning to attack you. I'm 100% for drone attacks.

It's a shame progressives don't campaign like this and pretend to have a spine, the american people need to see the true nature of the left.

]]> By: Patrick Cummins http://www.juancole.com/2009/12/top-things-that-would-redeem-obama.html#comment-1140 Patrick Cummins Fri, 11 Dec 2009 04:01:57 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4829#comment-1140 "{T]he [Noble peace] prize is for a specific policy success, not for being a pacifist."<br /><br />What policy success? Obama was nominated within about 10 days of assuming the presidency. Awarding him the prize seems like an expression of hope more than anything else. <br /><br />I agree though that if he manages to help bring into existence a Palestinian state he will have redeemed himself. So far, it's not looking good. <br /><br />The silver lining on his dismal Afghan surge is that it makes an attack on Iran less likely. "{T]he [Noble peace] prize is for a specific policy success, not for being a pacifist."

What policy success? Obama was nominated within about 10 days of assuming the presidency. Awarding him the prize seems like an expression of hope more than anything else.

I agree though that if he manages to help bring into existence a Palestinian state he will have redeemed himself. So far, it's not looking good.

The silver lining on his dismal Afghan surge is that it makes an attack on Iran less likely.

]]> By: Anna http://www.juancole.com/2009/12/top-things-that-would-redeem-obama.html#comment-1139 Anna Fri, 11 Dec 2009 03:22:40 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4829#comment-1139 Re 1: What makes you think that they are more likely to compromise if left alone? Leaving the Nazis and the Jews alone was not going to lead to any such outcome. In context, isn't a more probable outcome that the Kurds are ganged up on by the Shia and Turkey?<br /><br />Re 2: The IAEA regards current Iranian nuclear facilities as suspect. If Iran is currently developing nuclear weapons your argument fails -- why wait to start the full scale war until after they possess nuclear weapons?<br /><br />Re 3: While I agree that drone killings are horrifying (and most probably illegal as simply a more glorified form of assassination), if we retain the same military goals, how many more lives would be lost if we pursued these same people (aka targets) with armies instead of drones?<br /><br />Re 4: Would our problems in the Mideast be solved by granting the Palestinians sovereign control over part of what used to be Palestine? Citizenship is a collection of rights granted by a nation to its citizens -- nothing stopping the Palestinians from granting the bulk of these to themselves, recognition by other nations grants rights to the Palestinians as a nation and accords to Palestinians abroad whatever rights are accorded to the citizens of other nations. The most important civil right is the right to life and lives are being lost in much greater numbers and proportions elsewhere. Re 1: What makes you think that they are more likely to compromise if left alone? Leaving the Nazis and the Jews alone was not going to lead to any such outcome. In context, isn't a more probable outcome that the Kurds are ganged up on by the Shia and Turkey?

Re 2: The IAEA regards current Iranian nuclear facilities as suspect. If Iran is currently developing nuclear weapons your argument fails — why wait to start the full scale war until after they possess nuclear weapons?

Re 3: While I agree that drone killings are horrifying (and most probably illegal as simply a more glorified form of assassination), if we retain the same military goals, how many more lives would be lost if we pursued these same people (aka targets) with armies instead of drones?

Re 4: Would our problems in the Mideast be solved by granting the Palestinians sovereign control over part of what used to be Palestine? Citizenship is a collection of rights granted by a nation to its citizens — nothing stopping the Palestinians from granting the bulk of these to themselves, recognition by other nations grants rights to the Palestinians as a nation and accords to Palestinians abroad whatever rights are accorded to the citizens of other nations. The most important civil right is the right to life and lives are being lost in much greater numbers and proportions elsewhere.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.juancole.com/2009/12/top-things-that-would-redeem-obama.html#comment-1138 Anonymous Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:38:54 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4829#comment-1138 <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8405020.stm" rel="nofollow">Egypt has begun constructing a huge metal wall along its border with the Gaza Strip as it attempts to cut smuggling tunnels</a> <br /><br />The Egyptians <b>are being helped by American army engineers who have designed the wall.</b> <br /><br />The plan has been shrouded in secrecy, with no comment or confirmation from the Egyptian government. <br /><br />==============<br /><br />why must the usa assist the jews in exterminating the Palestinians ??? Egypt has begun constructing a huge metal wall along its border with the Gaza Strip as it attempts to cut smuggling tunnels

The Egyptians are being helped by American army engineers who have designed the wall.

The plan has been shrouded in secrecy, with no comment or confirmation from the Egyptian government.

==============

why must the usa assist the jews in exterminating the Palestinians ???

]]> By: Bill http://www.juancole.com/2009/12/top-things-that-would-redeem-obama.html#comment-1137 Bill Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:08:19 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4829#comment-1137 I thought that Obomber’s “War is Peace” speech was both appalling and a real wake up for the clowns who gave the killingest man in the world today a “Peace” prize.<br /><br />On the Palestinian State question, There was a letter in the FT a couple of weeks ago from someone born in Palestine in 1940 who has a Palestinian birth certificate. Palestine did not cease to exist because the UN stole a peace of it to give to a bunch of Europeans. The Palestinians should focus on getting countries, particularly European ones to recognize that fact. I thought that Obomber’s “War is Peace” speech was both appalling and a real wake up for the clowns who gave the killingest man in the world today a “Peace” prize.

On the Palestinian State question, There was a letter in the FT a couple of weeks ago from someone born in Palestine in 1940 who has a Palestinian birth certificate. Palestine did not cease to exist because the UN stole a peace of it to give to a bunch of Europeans. The Palestinians should focus on getting countries, particularly European ones to recognize that fact.

]]> By: Mulla Sadra http://www.juancole.com/2009/12/top-things-that-would-redeem-obama.html#comment-1136 Mulla Sadra Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:15:46 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4829#comment-1136 unfortunately juan, 3,4,5 are just not likely and even 2 is looking more distant as the propaganda is cranked up (and who knows what AN thinks he's doing). unfortunately juan, 3,4,5 are just not likely and even 2 is looking more distant as the propaganda is cranked up (and who knows what AN thinks he's doing).

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.juancole.com/2009/12/top-things-that-would-redeem-obama.html#comment-1135 Anonymous Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:32:10 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4829#comment-1135 You're wrong about what the prize is for. To quote alfred nobel's will (which established the prize):<br /><br />"The whole of my remaining realizable estate shall be dealt with in the following way:... The said interest shall be divided into five equal parts, which shall be apportioned as follows:... and one part to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."<br /><br />http://nobelprize.org/alfred_nobel/will/will-full.html You're wrong about what the prize is for. To quote alfred nobel's will (which established the prize):

"The whole of my remaining realizable estate shall be dealt with in the following way:… The said interest shall be divided into five equal parts, which shall be apportioned as follows:… and one part to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."

http://nobelprize.org/alfred_nobel/will/will-full.html

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