Comments on: Allah Muslim-Christian Controversy in Malaysia http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/riots-by-some-muslims-in-malaysia-and.html Thoughts on the Middle East, History and Religion Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:17:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: don http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/riots-by-some-muslims-in-malaysia-and.html#comment-3977 don Tue, 11 May 2010 16:00:35 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4895#comment-3977 @just me... facts please, make up your mind and no fiction please... @just me…
facts please, make up your mind and no fiction please…

]]> By: Just Me.... http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/riots-by-some-muslims-in-malaysia-and.html#comment-1858 Just Me.... Tue, 26 Jan 2010 05:39:37 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4895#comment-1858 In Malaysia, the word for lord in Malay is "Tuhan" but not Allah. Standard has been set long time ago.<br /><br />Weird.. In 2007, One of the roman catholic bishop argues that it is inappropriate for Christians to call God Allah based on irreconcilable theological differences associated with the name Allah and core Christian beliefs.<br /><br />Muslim in Malaysia did say Christian share the same god as Muslim and it was ok to use the word Allah but the Christian in Malaysia rejected it saying Allah don't have a Son. Now, they want to use it again.<br /><br />So, make up your mind whether want to use it or not.<br /><br />Please don't involve religion with politics. In Malaysia, the word for lord in Malay is "Tuhan" but not Allah. Standard has been set long time ago.

Weird.. In 2007, One of the roman catholic bishop argues that it is inappropriate for Christians to call God Allah based on irreconcilable theological differences associated with the name Allah and core Christian beliefs.

Muslim in Malaysia did say Christian share the same god as Muslim and it was ok to use the word Allah but the Christian in Malaysia rejected it saying Allah don't have a Son. Now, they want to use it again.

So, make up your mind whether want to use it or not.

Please don't involve religion with politics.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/riots-by-some-muslims-in-malaysia-and.html#comment-1661 Anonymous Fri, 15 Jan 2010 16:41:24 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4895#comment-1661 JDsg...with regard to your comments on East Malaysia, you are probably not aware of the 20-point agreement/memorandum made between the state of Sabah (then North Borneo) with what would be the federal government of Malaysia prior to the formation of Malaysia in September 16, 1963, and Point 1 is "Religion: While there was no objection to Islam being the national religion of Malaysia there should be no State religion in North Borneo, and the provisions relating to Islam in the present Constitution of Malaya should not apply to North Borneo". A similar agreement was made between the state of Sarawak and the federal government but with certain differences in their 18-point agreement. JDsg…with regard to your comments on East Malaysia, you are probably not aware of the 20-point agreement/memorandum made between the state of Sabah (then North Borneo) with what would be the federal government of Malaysia prior to the formation of Malaysia in September 16, 1963, and Point 1 is "Religion: While there was no objection to Islam being the national religion of Malaysia there should be no State religion in North Borneo, and the provisions relating to Islam in the present Constitution of Malaya should not apply to North Borneo". A similar agreement was made between the state of Sarawak and the federal government but with certain differences in their 18-point agreement.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/riots-by-some-muslims-in-malaysia-and.html#comment-1656 Anonymous Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:10:29 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4895#comment-1656 Well, try this for a "egoistic" behavior. Indonesian Council of Islamic Ulama (leaders in religion) can declare which action is sin (haram in indonesia/malaysia word).<br /><br />In the recent meeting of a group of islamic schools want to propose this to the council that <br />- bonding hair for single woman is a sin, woman must not look pretty since it might aroused male to conduct sin. <br />- pre-wedding picture also a sin for both the couple and the photographer, since promote closeness between non husband and wife (touching is not permitted before married).<br /><br />Although this is only a proposal, i just feel it absurd.<br /><br />Smoking is still in debate, although everyone know smoking will kill. Well, try this for a "egoistic" behavior. Indonesian Council of Islamic Ulama (leaders in religion) can declare which action is sin (haram in indonesia/malaysia word).

In the recent meeting of a group of islamic schools want to propose this to the council that
- bonding hair for single woman is a sin, woman must not look pretty since it might aroused male to conduct sin.
- pre-wedding picture also a sin for both the couple and the photographer, since promote closeness between non husband and wife (touching is not permitted before married).

Although this is only a proposal, i just feel it absurd.

Smoking is still in debate, although everyone know smoking will kill.

]]> By: letsreform http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/riots-by-some-muslims-in-malaysia-and.html#comment-1630 letsreform Thu, 14 Jan 2010 02:24:45 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4895#comment-1630 @Juan: my sentiments exactly. I have a Bible here in the US, that a Christian preacher was handing out. It has one sentence in multiple languages and in the Arabic version Allah is used for God. <br />In fact the Quran explicitly asks Muslims to emphasize to the "people of the book" that their Gods are one and the same: <br /><br />29:46 And do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation otherwise than in a most kindly manner - unless it be such of them as are bent on evildoing and say: “We believe in that which has been be stowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you: our God and your God is one and the same, and it is unto Him that We [all] surrender ourselves.”<br /><br />It is ironic that Malay Muslims take offense at their God being recognized by Christians as their own, while Muslims in the west would love for Christians to come to that realization.<br /><br />@JDsg: Whatever ulterior motives maybe involved, wouldn't you agree that educating the "less informed" Muslims would be the right thing to do? Especially since their premise holds no logical basis and is in direct contradiction of the Quran. <br /><br />@Naj: Elahe to my understanding is Elah [god as in لا اله الا الله] plus "he" [تای تانیث] which is used to denote the female version of things in Arabic. So to my understanding its a 100% Arabic word. الهة in Google Translate returns Goddess. @Juan: my sentiments exactly. I have a Bible here in the US, that a Christian preacher was handing out. It has one sentence in multiple languages and in the Arabic version Allah is used for God.
In fact the Quran explicitly asks Muslims to emphasize to the "people of the book" that their Gods are one and the same:

29:46 And do not argue with the followers of earlier revelation otherwise than in a most kindly manner – unless it be such of them as are bent on evildoing and say: “We believe in that which has been be stowed from on high upon us, as well as that which has been bestowed upon you: our God and your God is one and the same, and it is unto Him that We [all] surrender ourselves.”

It is ironic that Malay Muslims take offense at their God being recognized by Christians as their own, while Muslims in the west would love for Christians to come to that realization.

@JDsg: Whatever ulterior motives maybe involved, wouldn't you agree that educating the "less informed" Muslims would be the right thing to do? Especially since their premise holds no logical basis and is in direct contradiction of the Quran.

@Naj: Elahe to my understanding is Elah [god as in لا اله الا الله] plus "he" [تای تانیث] which is used to denote the female version of things in Arabic. So to my understanding its a 100% Arabic word. الهة in Google Translate returns Goddess.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/riots-by-some-muslims-in-malaysia-and.html#comment-1619 Anonymous Wed, 13 Jan 2010 13:53:37 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4895#comment-1619 asr, thanks for proving yourself as what you deny to be.<br />You might be an Islamic school teacher, but your "Muslims in Malaysia is not that narrow minded people who cannot understand academic arguments, we just confused by their sudden intention to use the word" gives you away as someone who lacks basic knowledge of the country and its history: The word 'Allah' has been used indiscriminately for centuries. Only one and a half years ago, the next Home Minister, trying to play to the galleries after a rather devastating election outcome for the ruling coalition, spontaneously decided that this century-old tradition would have to stop immediately. All inter-faith dialogue proposals were brushed aside by the government, until the paper saw no other alternative than to go to court to get that decision overturned. asr, thanks for proving yourself as what you deny to be.
You might be an Islamic school teacher, but your "Muslims in Malaysia is not that narrow minded people who cannot understand academic arguments, we just confused by their sudden intention to use the word" gives you away as someone who lacks basic knowledge of the country and its history: The word 'Allah' has been used indiscriminately for centuries. Only one and a half years ago, the next Home Minister, trying to play to the galleries after a rather devastating election outcome for the ruling coalition, spontaneously decided that this century-old tradition would have to stop immediately. All inter-faith dialogue proposals were brushed aside by the government, until the paper saw no other alternative than to go to court to get that decision overturned.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/riots-by-some-muslims-in-malaysia-and.html#comment-1617 Anonymous Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:19:24 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4895#comment-1617 The best joke is that the term "allah" is also used in the peranakan chinese (straits born chinese) patois to refer to the Taoist deities, they worship. FYI, the peranakans arose out of Chinese and Malay intermarriages. Don't think the peranakan chinese even thought of converting the malays! Only conclusion from UMNO/Malaysian minister brushing aside centuries old usage of the word "allah" and its etymology is that UMNO think the Malay Muslims are stupid and therefore need to claim the word "allah" as special to Islam. As for protecting the population of Eastern states of Sabah and Sarawak, the joke is that Muslims form the minority in the Eastern states of Sabah and Sarawak, despite the mass conversions of indigenous folks and the total trampling of the 20 points agreement between the federal govenment and the states of Sabah and Sarawak. ...Oh well I suppose we cannot expect much rationality or fairplay from the only country in the world where affirmative action exists for the majority Malay muslims! The best joke is that the term "allah" is also used in the peranakan chinese (straits born chinese) patois to refer to the Taoist deities, they worship. FYI, the peranakans arose out of Chinese and Malay intermarriages. Don't think the peranakan chinese even thought of converting the malays! Only conclusion from UMNO/Malaysian minister brushing aside centuries old usage of the word "allah" and its etymology is that UMNO think the Malay Muslims are stupid and therefore need to claim the word "allah" as special to Islam. As for protecting the population of Eastern states of Sabah and Sarawak, the joke is that Muslims form the minority in the Eastern states of Sabah and Sarawak, despite the mass conversions of indigenous folks and the total trampling of the 20 points agreement between the federal govenment and the states of Sabah and Sarawak. …Oh well I suppose we cannot expect much rationality or fairplay from the only country in the world where affirmative action exists for the majority Malay muslims!

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.juancole.com/2010/01/riots-by-some-muslims-in-malaysia-and.html#comment-1604 Anonymous Tue, 12 Jan 2010 16:38:14 +0000 http://www.juancole.com/?p=4895#comment-1604 If you prevent others from calling Allah, which other gods would you like them to call?<br /><br />Is it not the duty of a Muslim to invite others to call or worship Allah instead compelling them to turn to other gods?<br /><br />Is it not blasphemous? <br /><br />What kind of a Muslim are you?<br /><br />A true Muslim or a Malay Muslim? If you prevent others from calling Allah, which other gods would you like them to call?

Is it not the duty of a Muslim to invite others to call or worship Allah instead compelling them to turn to other gods?

Is it not blasphemous?

What kind of a Muslim are you?

A true Muslim or a Malay Muslim?

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