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	<title>Comments on: Jenkins: Bible Far More Violent than Qur&#8217;an</title>
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	<link>http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/jenkins-bible-far-more-violent-than.html</link>
	<description>Thoughts on the Middle East, History and Religion</description>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/jenkins-bible-far-more-violent-than.html#comment-2658</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It is interesting to observe that through much of Asia Islam has coexisted relatively peacefully with a variety of other religions. Of course the key to that statement is the term &#039;relatively&#039;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There have always been, and likely will always be, tensions between groups based on their differences. Whether the differences are based on religion, culture (and the two are often confused both by the participants in a conflict and by observers), skin colour, economic disparities and on and on and on. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;So they&#039;re supposed to only hate pagans, not other monotheists. Great. I now have as much respect for them as they have for my religion, Wicca.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Generally speaking, when the Qu&#039;ran is speaking of violence or otherwise appearing to be judgemental, it is referring to issues current at the birth of the religion.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When it denounces the pagans, it is denouncing a specific group who had been persecuting muslims for some time even up to the point of killing those without the protection of powerful families. The Qu&#039;ran isn&#039;t referring to the Hindu, Shinto, Wiccan or any other faith either directly or by implication.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;And I suspect most muslims have a sophisticated enough understanding of our religion to understand that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting to observe that through much of Asia Islam has coexisted relatively peacefully with a variety of other religions. Of course the key to that statement is the term &#39;relatively&#39;.</p>
<p>There have always been, and likely will always be, tensions between groups based on their differences. Whether the differences are based on religion, culture (and the two are often confused both by the participants in a conflict and by observers), skin colour, economic disparities and on and on and on. </p>
<p><i>So they&#39;re supposed to only hate pagans, not other monotheists. Great. I now have as much respect for them as they have for my religion, Wicca.</i></p>
<p>Generally speaking, when the Qu&#39;ran is speaking of violence or otherwise appearing to be judgemental, it is referring to issues current at the birth of the religion.</p>
<p>When it denounces the pagans, it is denouncing a specific group who had been persecuting muslims for some time even up to the point of killing those without the protection of powerful families. The Qu&#39;ran isn&#39;t referring to the Hindu, Shinto, Wiccan or any other faith either directly or by implication.</p>
<p>And I suspect most muslims have a sophisticated enough understanding of our religion to understand that.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/jenkins-bible-far-more-violent-than.html#comment-2657</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juancole.com/?p=5045#comment-2657</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s worth pointing out that current scholarship doesn&#039;t accept the historicity of Joshua&#039;s biblical campaign of conquest; the cities named as falling to Joshua appear in reality to have fallen across a span of centuries, and not uniformly owing to military causes.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The current thinking is that the ancient Israelites emerged from a Canaanite underclass, merged with a small migratory group that is thought to have come into contact with a Yahweh cult in the Sinai, if memory serves. From this perspective, the rationale for the Joshua story would appear to emerge from a cultural and historical context in which taking land by conquest was a surer confirmation of ownership than merely living on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#39;s worth pointing out that current scholarship doesn&#39;t accept the historicity of Joshua&#39;s biblical campaign of conquest; the cities named as falling to Joshua appear in reality to have fallen across a span of centuries, and not uniformly owing to military causes.</p>
<p>The current thinking is that the ancient Israelites emerged from a Canaanite underclass, merged with a small migratory group that is thought to have come into contact with a Yahweh cult in the Sinai, if memory serves. From this perspective, the rationale for the Joshua story would appear to emerge from a cultural and historical context in which taking land by conquest was a surer confirmation of ownership than merely living on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/jenkins-bible-far-more-violent-than.html#comment-2654</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The family of Abraham -- Jews, Muslims, Christians -- is a dysfunctional family, in all its parts and as a whole: each side of the family claims the alleged right to dominate the world (the &#039;promised land&#039;), and each slaughters anyone in the way.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&#039;Pagans&#039; -- i.e., those who live on the land, the indigenous villagers -- bear the brunt of the Abrahamic dysfunction, but we all suffer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The family of Abraham &#8212; Jews, Muslims, Christians &#8212; is a dysfunctional family, in all its parts and as a whole: each side of the family claims the alleged right to dominate the world (the &#39;promised land&#39;), and each slaughters anyone in the way.</p>
<p>&#39;Pagans&#39; &#8212; i.e., those who live on the land, the indigenous villagers &#8212; bear the brunt of the Abrahamic dysfunction, but we all suffer.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Sansom</title>
		<link>http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/jenkins-bible-far-more-violent-than.html#comment-2646</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Sansom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 04:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juancole.com/?p=5045#comment-2646</guid>
		<description>Jenkins is receiving death threats from Christians insisting that the Bible is less violent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenkins is receiving death threats from Christians insisting that the Bible is less violent.</p>
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		<title>By: cmurphy</title>
		<link>http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/jenkins-bible-far-more-violent-than.html#comment-2644</link>
		<dc:creator>cmurphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 23:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.juancole.com/?p=5045#comment-2644</guid>
		<description>People are not all equally capable of good and evil across religions. Religion makes good people do bad things. That it can moderate bad people doesn&#039;t mean we should give these religions a pass. Both Christianity and Islam have an eschatology that embraces violence, and rewards the do&#039;er of that violence against non-believers.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It should not be comforting to rational people that a religion is less violent towards the adherents of similar, if not completely accepted, irrational beliefs in the supernatural. Of course they are going to support fellow monotheistic believers of the same god. Ask them what they think of believers of Ba&#039;al or Thor or Zeus.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I think it&#039;s ignorant to be giving a pass to Islam, or Christianity for their disgusting and violent histories, and present day unquestionably unethical teachings and policies around the globe.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I would like to see more cartoons. Not less. The contemptible should be treated with contempt. These are treacherous and dangerous beliefs, we should be calling people out on them, not making glittering generalities about how one is more violent than another when both are the most disgusting and perverted uses of human imagination and ingenuity that have ever occurred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People are not all equally capable of good and evil across religions. Religion makes good people do bad things. That it can moderate bad people doesn&#39;t mean we should give these religions a pass. Both Christianity and Islam have an eschatology that embraces violence, and rewards the do&#39;er of that violence against non-believers.</p>
<p>It should not be comforting to rational people that a religion is less violent towards the adherents of similar, if not completely accepted, irrational beliefs in the supernatural. Of course they are going to support fellow monotheistic believers of the same god. Ask them what they think of believers of Ba&#39;al or Thor or Zeus.</p>
<p>I think it&#39;s ignorant to be giving a pass to Islam, or Christianity for their disgusting and violent histories, and present day unquestionably unethical teachings and policies around the globe.</p>
<p>I would like to see more cartoons. Not less. The contemptible should be treated with contempt. These are treacherous and dangerous beliefs, we should be calling people out on them, not making glittering generalities about how one is more violent than another when both are the most disgusting and perverted uses of human imagination and ingenuity that have ever occurred.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Yee</title>
		<link>http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/jenkins-bible-far-more-violent-than.html#comment-2642</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Yee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What about the Bangladeshi war of independence and the Indonesian massacres of 65/66?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the Bangladeshi war of independence and the Indonesian massacres of 65/66?</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/jenkins-bible-far-more-violent-than.html#comment-2638</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Although the mystical experience positively rewires the brain, it does not constitute evidence for the existence of supernatural beings.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Metaphysical speculation + wishful thinking is the basis of all religion.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To invert Gandhi : all religions are false, all religions have some truth in them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although the mystical experience positively rewires the brain, it does not constitute evidence for the existence of supernatural beings.</p>
<p>Metaphysical speculation + wishful thinking is the basis of all religion.</p>
<p>To invert Gandhi : all religions are false, all religions have some truth in them.</p>
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		<title>By: dmoloney</title>
		<link>http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/jenkins-bible-far-more-violent-than.html#comment-2636</link>
		<dc:creator>dmoloney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;whereas Muslims probably killed no more than 2 million&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;No offense juan but arent you being a bit forgetful, what about the Armenian, pontic greek and assyrian genocides, bangladesh in the seventies and the millions killed by the sudanese government.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As an atheist i think all the religious books are pretty demented, however from what ive read of each the torah would be the most violent, followed by the slightly schizophrenic koran, i would place the bible third due to the fact that for christians the new testament is the most relevent part and as far as religious books go it is fairly benign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;whereas Muslims probably killed no more than 2 million&quot;</p>
<p>No offense juan but arent you being a bit forgetful, what about the Armenian, pontic greek and assyrian genocides, bangladesh in the seventies and the millions killed by the sudanese government.</p>
<p>As an atheist i think all the religious books are pretty demented, however from what ive read of each the torah would be the most violent, followed by the slightly schizophrenic koran, i would place the bible third due to the fact that for christians the new testament is the most relevent part and as far as religious books go it is fairly benign.</p>
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