Well said. When I was younger, I used to believe that language like this was hyperbole. However, after the past 20 years, I don't know how you come to another conclusion about the so-called American elite. They are never hesitant to bring down the power of the national security state or the penal system on those without wealth and power. Eric Holder is mighty tough on internet activists, minority teenagers caught with weed or disillusioned Muslim boys entrapped by the FBI. Of course, when it comes to Jaime Dimon, his bravery recedes more quickly than a Democrat caving in on entitlement reform. Subsidies and credits and deductions for corporate America and cuts for the safety net. On literally every topic, the decision-makers in this country favor their donor class.
Just a disgraceful group of people, exemplified by the execrable Dianne Feinstein. Well said, Professor.
This is not about the US, and it's utterly irrelevant to this conversation in my mind. This is about the people of the middle east, and the fact that we all are constantly used and abused by the local, regional and global heavyweights. Who is importing Wahabist/Salafist fighters to Syria, giving them weapons and arms and encouraging them to ramp up the sectarian bloodbath? The Saudis. Who sent troops into neighboring Bahrain to help brutally repress a popular uprising? The same. This is not a goddamn game - ordinary Arabs are constantly victimized in these horrific struggles for power between the Gulf, Israel, the US, Russia and Iran. These various countries all have their own interests, but none of them care one whit about the safety, culture or rights of the locals. The Saudi royals and their army of fundamentalist clerics are the biggest promoters of Arab on Arab or Muslim on Muslim violence in the world. And for what purpose? To keep Iran in "check"? To further their influence in the Levant? Whatever it is, it is not worth the violence they are contributing to Syria right now. I don't care what Saudi Arabia is like to you or anyone else - what I care about, and what others like me care about, is that the Saudis stop advancing the cause of the Wahabist ideology at the expense of all of our lives. And spare me any government proclamations about Wahabism or jihad - the royal family owes its crown and wealth to Wahabism and will never turn its back on that ideology.
Big surprise - the perversion of Islam and persecution of innocents continues under the usurper totalitarians. They cannot stand the idea of any Arab thinking differently than them - so much so that they will arm, fund and even provide troops to any tinpot dictator in the region to prop them up (unless, of course, the tinpot dictator in question happens not to be Muslim. Or the wrong kind of Muslim. Or anyone who dares question their bullshit worldview).
The sooner the Arab world can purge itself of these animals, the better off the rest of us will be. I don't care if there is one person protesting or a million - bless them all and give them the strength to stand up to the cowards and liars of the "Kingdom".
Alliances change all the time - ask the Arabs about that! And right now, there's never been a more pressing need in the Republic than for progressives to align themselves with the libertarian right on national security and civil liberties issues. Despite all of the horrors they unleashed on the world and their monunemental incompetence in dealing with the wars they helped start, centrist Democrats and neoconservatives in the GOP still hold total dominance over the most vital aspects of our national policies. These groups have the vast majority of our major media outlets, whether print (NYT, WaPo, WSJ) or in TV (CNN, Fox and MSNBC) on their side, a sleek and well funded propoganda operation. We need every voice we can get NOW to stop them.
As a Muslim, this reflexive defense of the Hadith is one of the more maddening aspects of my co-religionists. There is no way to avoid it - the Hadith are heresay. Moreover, it's heresay that's hundreds of years old. Regardless of the identity of the narrators, you simply can't avoid this fact. There is a reason that courts do not permit evidence based on heresay - human recollection is notoriously poor, and can easily be manipulated and misunderstood. The reason that we Muslims believe that the Quran is infallible is because we believe that it was written down contemporaneously or quite close to the time of the revelation. Furthemore, it's written in poetry, not prose - think about how much easier it is to rememember a poem or song you love instead of a speech.
The immediate response from those who view the Hadith as totally integral to Islam is always the same as the poster above - how would we know how to practice our religion, since the Quran itself does not contain all that much in terms of detail. It never strikes people that perhaps God intended that to be the case! if you truly do believe in an omnipotent God who created humans in all of our various incarnations, why is it so difficult to believe that perhaps He intended for us to worship in the manner we see fit? Did He not know that cultures and traditions change throughout time and practices that may have been widely approved in the 7th century would not be in the 21st? Take clothing, for example. The Quran says nothing about requiring women to cover their hair or face. Is it really so hard to believe that perhaps the Hadith which address these points are more of a function of Arab culture at the time, where both men and women covered their hair and face for more practical reasons?
I don't believe that the Hadith necessarily need to be rejected outright, and even if they are nothing more than older Arab or Persian cultural mores, they will still have value. I think the appropriate way to read them, if you are a Muslim, is to read them and think about whether this would be a violation of the spirit of the Quran.
I wish we'd ditch more than just the poppycock. How on earth politicians like Obama can stand up there and lecture the world to do one thing while they do the total opposite is beyond me. That is a remarkable ability, although I think his opponent has mastered it even better than Obama.
Where's Hillary Clinton's loudmouth aid when you need him most!?
Sigh. Everytime I point out some awful, totally false and ridiculous talking point about the middle east, the Saudis have to go and prove every ugly stereotype about Arabs and Muslims known to man.
The House of Saud is a curse on Arabs everywhere. Who knows, maybe one day we will be rid of them. What a cherry on top of the Arab Spring to have ended the line of Wahabist charlatans in the holy land!
Well said. When I was younger, I used to believe that language like this was hyperbole. However, after the past 20 years, I don't know how you come to another conclusion about the so-called American elite. They are never hesitant to bring down the power of the national security state or the penal system on those without wealth and power. Eric Holder is mighty tough on internet activists, minority teenagers caught with weed or disillusioned Muslim boys entrapped by the FBI. Of course, when it comes to Jaime Dimon, his bravery recedes more quickly than a Democrat caving in on entitlement reform. Subsidies and credits and deductions for corporate America and cuts for the safety net. On literally every topic, the decision-makers in this country favor their donor class.
Just a disgraceful group of people, exemplified by the execrable Dianne Feinstein. Well said, Professor.
Alia,
This is not about the US, and it's utterly irrelevant to this conversation in my mind. This is about the people of the middle east, and the fact that we all are constantly used and abused by the local, regional and global heavyweights. Who is importing Wahabist/Salafist fighters to Syria, giving them weapons and arms and encouraging them to ramp up the sectarian bloodbath? The Saudis. Who sent troops into neighboring Bahrain to help brutally repress a popular uprising? The same. This is not a goddamn game - ordinary Arabs are constantly victimized in these horrific struggles for power between the Gulf, Israel, the US, Russia and Iran. These various countries all have their own interests, but none of them care one whit about the safety, culture or rights of the locals. The Saudi royals and their army of fundamentalist clerics are the biggest promoters of Arab on Arab or Muslim on Muslim violence in the world. And for what purpose? To keep Iran in "check"? To further their influence in the Levant? Whatever it is, it is not worth the violence they are contributing to Syria right now. I don't care what Saudi Arabia is like to you or anyone else - what I care about, and what others like me care about, is that the Saudis stop advancing the cause of the Wahabist ideology at the expense of all of our lives. And spare me any government proclamations about Wahabism or jihad - the royal family owes its crown and wealth to Wahabism and will never turn its back on that ideology.
Big surprise - the perversion of Islam and persecution of innocents continues under the usurper totalitarians. They cannot stand the idea of any Arab thinking differently than them - so much so that they will arm, fund and even provide troops to any tinpot dictator in the region to prop them up (unless, of course, the tinpot dictator in question happens not to be Muslim. Or the wrong kind of Muslim. Or anyone who dares question their bullshit worldview).
The sooner the Arab world can purge itself of these animals, the better off the rest of us will be. I don't care if there is one person protesting or a million - bless them all and give them the strength to stand up to the cowards and liars of the "Kingdom".
Alliances change all the time - ask the Arabs about that! And right now, there's never been a more pressing need in the Republic than for progressives to align themselves with the libertarian right on national security and civil liberties issues. Despite all of the horrors they unleashed on the world and their monunemental incompetence in dealing with the wars they helped start, centrist Democrats and neoconservatives in the GOP still hold total dominance over the most vital aspects of our national policies. These groups have the vast majority of our major media outlets, whether print (NYT, WaPo, WSJ) or in TV (CNN, Fox and MSNBC) on their side, a sleek and well funded propoganda operation. We need every voice we can get NOW to stop them.
As a Muslim, this reflexive defense of the Hadith is one of the more maddening aspects of my co-religionists. There is no way to avoid it - the Hadith are heresay. Moreover, it's heresay that's hundreds of years old. Regardless of the identity of the narrators, you simply can't avoid this fact. There is a reason that courts do not permit evidence based on heresay - human recollection is notoriously poor, and can easily be manipulated and misunderstood. The reason that we Muslims believe that the Quran is infallible is because we believe that it was written down contemporaneously or quite close to the time of the revelation. Furthemore, it's written in poetry, not prose - think about how much easier it is to rememember a poem or song you love instead of a speech.
The immediate response from those who view the Hadith as totally integral to Islam is always the same as the poster above - how would we know how to practice our religion, since the Quran itself does not contain all that much in terms of detail. It never strikes people that perhaps God intended that to be the case! if you truly do believe in an omnipotent God who created humans in all of our various incarnations, why is it so difficult to believe that perhaps He intended for us to worship in the manner we see fit? Did He not know that cultures and traditions change throughout time and practices that may have been widely approved in the 7th century would not be in the 21st? Take clothing, for example. The Quran says nothing about requiring women to cover their hair or face. Is it really so hard to believe that perhaps the Hadith which address these points are more of a function of Arab culture at the time, where both men and women covered their hair and face for more practical reasons?
I don't believe that the Hadith necessarily need to be rejected outright, and even if they are nothing more than older Arab or Persian cultural mores, they will still have value. I think the appropriate way to read them, if you are a Muslim, is to read them and think about whether this would be a violation of the spirit of the Quran.
I wish we'd ditch more than just the poppycock. How on earth politicians like Obama can stand up there and lecture the world to do one thing while they do the total opposite is beyond me. That is a remarkable ability, although I think his opponent has mastered it even better than Obama.
Where's Hillary Clinton's loudmouth aid when you need him most!?
Sigh. Everytime I point out some awful, totally false and ridiculous talking point about the middle east, the Saudis have to go and prove every ugly stereotype about Arabs and Muslims known to man.
The House of Saud is a curse on Arabs everywhere. Who knows, maybe one day we will be rid of them. What a cherry on top of the Arab Spring to have ended the line of Wahabist charlatans in the holy land!