That is a pretty shallow and cold thing to say about the soldiers caught in the middle of this mess. You act as though it is simply a matter of choice for a soldier to refuse to fight in an unjust war (which this most certainly was). Do you really mean to say that a soldier who is now at home suffering from all kinds of war related trauma "should be ashamed" of his or her service? When are we going to stop with this crap about the soldiers being as culpable as the wretched and corrupt human beings who lead them? Look what it did to the men and women returning home from Vietnam. The hippies and other anti-war activists were right to condemn the war in Vietnam but they had no right to treat the returning soldiers the way they did. That to me was just as disgraceful as the war itself. You seem to have done your research and seem to have an informed opinion about how the American leadership works in this country but you mention nothing about the economic factors that play into military service. It's not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be. Ask yourself honestly, would you have the guts to refuse to fight in a war and risk imprisonment? I know I wouldn't. My solution (if you can even call it that) is to simply not join the military. Of course I had the luxury of a middle class upbringing which allowed me other options in my life. I urge you to take another look at your opinion about soldiers and try and see a much more nuanced, complicated picture.
I found it rather odd that Prof. Cole would cite Eisenhower as a president to emulate and a man who "knew right from wrong" (especially in a piece about war in the Middle East). His administration was responsible for the overthrow of the democratically elected PM Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran and, one could argue, helped sow the seeds of modern day Islamic fundamentalism. Not surprisingly, Eisenhower (like Bush) was also acting at the behest of oil corporations (Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, I believe). To imply that Eisenhower had some sort of moral compass is a bit of a stretch. I think it's easy for a leader to dismiss the acts of other nations (France, Israel, etc) but what we really need in this world are leaders who are capable of honestly turning this critical eye upon themselves and the nations they lead. Yeah, I don't think so either. That's even less likely than Obama reciting Prof. Cole's speech next week on national television.
I love how you completely ignore what actually took place and what it is that we are discussing here. Innocent people were murdered. I dont know what the author of the statements you are analyzing intended by them. Who knows? Maybe he or she is hiding some kind of anti-Semitic tendency but why on earth does that matter when we are talking about HUMAN BEINGS who were brutally attacked and murdered? I don't care if we are talking about Jews, Palestinians or Swedes. The point is that an act of injustice was committed. Why do you and others insist on forcing your own pet issues into a situation like this? Try contributing to the more relevant discussion here. We have witnessed yet another instance in which human beings treat each other with complete indifference and malice. Save your cries of racism for a discussion on the topic (which is certainly valid) and stop trying to steer this whole thing straight into the gutter.
I don't see your point here. Other than a desire to appear informed and insightful I can't see why you would even bother to point any of this out. Why does it matter whether or not this was an act of provocation by the peace activists? Does that somehow justify the actions of the Israeli military? And who cares if it was "planned" as you say. How can that have any bearing on whether or not the actions of the Israeli navy were justified? You go from saying that a particular individual "might" have had a gun to declaring that the activists were not innocent unarmed civilians. What is your definition of innocent? What exactly did these activists do that puts their innocence in question? I have yet to hear of any illegal acts committed by them. That to me is the definition of innocence. You are also denying that they were unarmed by appealing to what you yourself admit is very limited evidence regarding the possibility of ONE man possessing a gun. As far as denying that they were civilians I have no idea how you can even make that claim. Finally, would you seriously call someone who claims to be a peace activist a hypocrite for simply defending themselves? Don't you think that's a little harsh? I consider myself a supporter of peace (as I think most people in the world are) but I can guarantee you that I would defend myself with violence if I were attacked. It baffles me how hard people like you try and discredit peace activists by holding them to ridiculous standards. These people were trying to do something kind for their fellow human beings. They may not have been up to your Gandhi-like standards of peace activism but it is clear that for them to take the risk that they did they were sincere in their desire to help others. Try applying your rigorous standards to the Israeli government (or most any government for that matter) and see what kind of hypocrisy you uncover. Somehow I dont think you will take the time to do so.
That is an astonishing claim. How can you possibly say that the attackers were the crew members? The attack began when heavily armed men illegally boarded a non-military vessel in international waters. By your logic we could claim that if an armed man kicks down your door in the middle of the night and you "attack" him then somehow you are the aggressor. This is another example of the obsession with ridiculous details that obscures the bigger picture. We did the same with the Iraq war. We start focusing on the acts of brutality committed by the "insurgents" instead of recognizing that the minute we illegally invaded a sovereign nation we lost what little moral standing we had. Innocent human beings were murdered in cold blood by the Israeli navy. It doesn't matter who did it or why. Let's stop the petty analysis and focus on justice here.
It always amazes me how complicated the discussion becomes on these forums. It seems that people get so caught up in the details and minutia that they seem to miss the very clear, simple point here; INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE MURDERED! It's that simple. Enough with the partisanship and blatant biases! We need to take this event OUT of the historical context in which it occurred and judge it for what it is; just another example of the despicable way in which we humans treat each other. I am so sick of people coming out of the woodwork with their pet theories and their armchair political analysis. WHO CARES! Justice for the victims is what is needed here. Not the same old partisan, racist, petty bullshit. I challenge anyone here to justify this atrocity on any grounds whatsoever. To hell with your loyalties and your petty ideologies! We need to start dispensing justice without regard to the "political implications" of doing so. The cowardice of our world leaders is shameful and completely baffling to me. Israel and ANY other nation (including the US) must be taught that this kind of brutality cannot and will not go unpunished.
It's reparations man. Not "repatriations".
That is a pretty shallow and cold thing to say about the soldiers caught in the middle of this mess. You act as though it is simply a matter of choice for a soldier to refuse to fight in an unjust war (which this most certainly was). Do you really mean to say that a soldier who is now at home suffering from all kinds of war related trauma "should be ashamed" of his or her service? When are we going to stop with this crap about the soldiers being as culpable as the wretched and corrupt human beings who lead them? Look what it did to the men and women returning home from Vietnam. The hippies and other anti-war activists were right to condemn the war in Vietnam but they had no right to treat the returning soldiers the way they did. That to me was just as disgraceful as the war itself. You seem to have done your research and seem to have an informed opinion about how the American leadership works in this country but you mention nothing about the economic factors that play into military service. It's not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be. Ask yourself honestly, would you have the guts to refuse to fight in a war and risk imprisonment? I know I wouldn't. My solution (if you can even call it that) is to simply not join the military. Of course I had the luxury of a middle class upbringing which allowed me other options in my life. I urge you to take another look at your opinion about soldiers and try and see a much more nuanced, complicated picture.
I found it rather odd that Prof. Cole would cite Eisenhower as a president to emulate and a man who "knew right from wrong" (especially in a piece about war in the Middle East). His administration was responsible for the overthrow of the democratically elected PM Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran and, one could argue, helped sow the seeds of modern day Islamic fundamentalism. Not surprisingly, Eisenhower (like Bush) was also acting at the behest of oil corporations (Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, I believe). To imply that Eisenhower had some sort of moral compass is a bit of a stretch. I think it's easy for a leader to dismiss the acts of other nations (France, Israel, etc) but what we really need in this world are leaders who are capable of honestly turning this critical eye upon themselves and the nations they lead. Yeah, I don't think so either. That's even less likely than Obama reciting Prof. Cole's speech next week on national television.
wound over 50 as they Board, Capture Gaza Aid Flotilla
I love how you completely ignore what actually took place and what it is that we are discussing here. Innocent people were murdered. I dont know what the author of the statements you are analyzing intended by them. Who knows? Maybe he or she is hiding some kind of anti-Semitic tendency but why on earth does that matter when we are talking about HUMAN BEINGS who were brutally attacked and murdered? I don't care if we are talking about Jews, Palestinians or Swedes. The point is that an act of injustice was committed. Why do you and others insist on forcing your own pet issues into a situation like this? Try contributing to the more relevant discussion here. We have witnessed yet another instance in which human beings treat each other with complete indifference and malice. Save your cries of racism for a discussion on the topic (which is certainly valid) and stop trying to steer this whole thing straight into the gutter.
I don't see your point here. Other than a desire to appear informed and insightful I can't see why you would even bother to point any of this out. Why does it matter whether or not this was an act of provocation by the peace activists? Does that somehow justify the actions of the Israeli military? And who cares if it was "planned" as you say. How can that have any bearing on whether or not the actions of the Israeli navy were justified? You go from saying that a particular individual "might" have had a gun to declaring that the activists were not innocent unarmed civilians. What is your definition of innocent? What exactly did these activists do that puts their innocence in question? I have yet to hear of any illegal acts committed by them. That to me is the definition of innocence. You are also denying that they were unarmed by appealing to what you yourself admit is very limited evidence regarding the possibility of ONE man possessing a gun. As far as denying that they were civilians I have no idea how you can even make that claim. Finally, would you seriously call someone who claims to be a peace activist a hypocrite for simply defending themselves? Don't you think that's a little harsh? I consider myself a supporter of peace (as I think most people in the world are) but I can guarantee you that I would defend myself with violence if I were attacked. It baffles me how hard people like you try and discredit peace activists by holding them to ridiculous standards. These people were trying to do something kind for their fellow human beings. They may not have been up to your Gandhi-like standards of peace activism but it is clear that for them to take the risk that they did they were sincere in their desire to help others. Try applying your rigorous standards to the Israeli government (or most any government for that matter) and see what kind of hypocrisy you uncover. Somehow I dont think you will take the time to do so.
That is an astonishing claim. How can you possibly say that the attackers were the crew members? The attack began when heavily armed men illegally boarded a non-military vessel in international waters. By your logic we could claim that if an armed man kicks down your door in the middle of the night and you "attack" him then somehow you are the aggressor. This is another example of the obsession with ridiculous details that obscures the bigger picture. We did the same with the Iraq war. We start focusing on the acts of brutality committed by the "insurgents" instead of recognizing that the minute we illegally invaded a sovereign nation we lost what little moral standing we had. Innocent human beings were murdered in cold blood by the Israeli navy. It doesn't matter who did it or why. Let's stop the petty analysis and focus on justice here.
It always amazes me how complicated the discussion becomes on these forums. It seems that people get so caught up in the details and minutia that they seem to miss the very clear, simple point here; INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE MURDERED! It's that simple. Enough with the partisanship and blatant biases! We need to take this event OUT of the historical context in which it occurred and judge it for what it is; just another example of the despicable way in which we humans treat each other. I am so sick of people coming out of the woodwork with their pet theories and their armchair political analysis. WHO CARES! Justice for the victims is what is needed here. Not the same old partisan, racist, petty bullshit. I challenge anyone here to justify this atrocity on any grounds whatsoever. To hell with your loyalties and your petty ideologies! We need to start dispensing justice without regard to the "political implications" of doing so. The cowardice of our world leaders is shameful and completely baffling to me. Israel and ANY other nation (including the US) must be taught that this kind of brutality cannot and will not go unpunished.