It kinda matters since the subject we are talking about is Iraq. If we were talking about Vietnam then it would be a different story. ( I would like to know what unit were you and what was your job)
Now about My Lai there will always be cases, but were not the majority of how we acted.
Actually the majority if not all was Russian made. With Russian RPG-3 grenades. But a lot of the IEDs and UXOs were from the Iran and Iraq war. You can still go to the boarder and find unexploded mortars and such. Also you really think that we are the only ones that use those type of rounds?
I take it your talking about such groups as VVAW/VFP?
I say again contractors can come in all shape and sizes, honorable or corrupt. No different then outside the Military.
What do I get out of this? That it is to show anyone who is reading that you have no interest in a honest debate once any statements you have to say are challenged.
The reason that I consider Iraq not to be a civil war is that I see a civil war to be just that a war. No just a few random bombings do not simply fit that. Considering that there are many bombings all over the world with the most recent one in Russia.
If this was a real honest to god civil war I expect to have real planned attacks by organized forces. Not some fourth rate terror group that would be the equivalent the Branch Davidians. This is the area that I worked it, it would be different if it was a place like Mosul. But it is not.
If I may ask when did you serve?
Now about 9/11 one of the big thing is not that there was a conspiracy to comment 9/11 but what happened afterwards with all the different laws that were passed. But everyone was so caught up in "It was a inside job" that they did not pay any attention what was being passed because you cannot say it in 30 seconds.
Because when I think of civil war I think of Yugoslavia and that world has a lot of violence that comes with it. People want to use the word civil war because it has a direct link massive deaths war crimes, and everything that comes with it. But going in in this area it was nothing like these images that a civil war invokes.
Now lets get into the whole Iraq invasion. This relates to 9/11 subject in that people were asking the wrong questions. The wrong ones were trying to some how prove that the invasion was illegal (which it was not). The right ones were; Should we be doing this with a active operation in Afghanistan that was neglected because of this invasion. The second is the lack of a working post invasion plan that was based on our system and not theirs. (That is one of the big changes that was included in the surge).
Now you bring up warring factions again. One thing that came up for that was the foreign fighters managed to anger the local population. The Sons of Iraq are a good example of this. The only people we have been siding with are the local groups from Iraq and not the foreign fighters that are just looking for holy war and 72 virgins regardless of who gets hurt. That is one of the reason that people turned on them.
Iraq has a lot of things that went wrong but there many things that are going right. The Diyala province is one of them.
Also if you notice JTMcPhee in his writings that anyone that disagree with it the "enemy" and has no problem doing anything that they can to diminishes the things that people have done to help in Iraq or in any other operations.
So your claiming that the only people that consider Iraq a successful ether gets off on killing or stole money by being a contractor (regardless of if it really happened or not).
As far as the first claim, in the 14 months that I was in Iraq I never had to fire my weapon in anger. The majority of our actions was dealing with IEDS. Also that we got a change to help repair and improve how the populations lives. From repairing schools to road improvements.
Now about contractors it really comes down to that they are doing the jobs that the US military used to do that were done away with in the mid 90s. So to make up for the short comings contractors are used. Also consider how the use of contractors has grown over the years in the civilian sector that it is real not a surprise that their use in military sections would happen.
As far as the conduct of the the contractors depends of each one. You can have those like blackwater that because of their actions lost their contract to operate in Iraq and you can have the others such as the ones that guarded our forward operating bases that did their job with honor.
Lastly about the attitude, it matters because with your stereotypes that we are committing crimes on a daily bases and that our actions of helping the population gets actively ignored. But when liars like Jessie Macbeth tells people that his unit killed 200 people inside Mosque when he never even finishes Army Basic Training that it gets world wide attention.
"Of course there’s a civil war: that’s what the neocons wanted and that’s why there was no post-war planning."
One of the reasons that there was a lot of problems how things are done. I would say that assumption was the big reason why any post war planning to not work.
The reference to the mobs was to compare what criminal groups will do to gain and keep power. What amount of violence they can get away with is one of the big differences here.
Also I have yet to say anything about 9/11 and Saddam. Which I think while we did not break UN/international laws that it we should not have invaded Iraq. The reason I went personally was that we should make sure Iraq does not turn out like Somalia with out anything close to a working government and ripped apart by fighting warlords. Which we are still dealing with in the terms of Pirates raiding ships in the Horn of Africa.
Also another concern what happened in the early 90s in the former Yugoslavia that lead to the the conflict there. Iraq and Yugoslavia are similar in that both nations were made from the remains of Central powers nations. Both had many groups that had bad blood going way back. Both had a Iron handed dictator that used force and bribes to retain his own power. The difference is that Tito died it lead to the break up in 1991.
Now going back to the surge one of the big thing that it did was allow use to go into the more remote areas of Iraq. This allowed us to talk to the local leaders and village elders that were being neglected by the main Iraqi Government. The reason for these towns and villages (even Iraq Army and Police checkpoints) is the differences between our (Western) system and (Middle East) theirs. Our system is if there is something that needs to be down that everyone knows what is happening and that if some has to leave that they can be replaced. Their system is the exact opposite that information is horded and to be as irreplaceable as possible even if it means that the project is affected. If you are in charge of a village this will greatly affect those that you are in charge of.
Here are some examples of the differences and how directly going to these areas help.
It matters because if you have not lived a area how do you know what is regular crimes and what is not. A murder in a small town will have a different affect then a murder in a large city.
Also have you ever been to Iraq, let alone the Diyala province? I have been in many of the places that this author is talking about for 14 months.
It matters greatly because we are comparing it to our country. A better example would be someone claiming that there is a civil war during the 20s becuase of all the mob fighting and crime.
The PKK is a good example, they have been doing ter...rorist attacks on Turkey to the point were Turkey and even Iran have launched air and artillery strikes in northern Iraq. This has been going on for years and I have yet to even hear people call this a civil war.
The closest thing to a Civil War happened when Muqtada al-Sadr tried to cause the Diyala providence to revolt. But he fled the country for the safety of Iran while giving his troops a "fight to the death command". His army was eliminated as a effective fighting force. There is still violence but nothing really came close to a organized revolt after that.
Also with the IEDs the big change was that in the first part we were finding them everywhere, but now only if we look for trouble. Not to bring in the fact that Iraq has a lot of unexploded ordinances around on the east part of the country from the Iran=Iraq war that are still laying around.
No it is not. Noticed that the targets are pilgrims because they are softer and easier targets then military ones.
Yes there is violence, however to call this a civil war is not true. The Diyala province was the area that I was in from May2...008 to July 2009 with over 165 missions with the main cause of enemy action from IEDs. More so from actively going seeking IEDs to disarm/destroy them. Talking to the many of the people that had to deal with what was going in in Iraq in the past and the difference is staggering. The main area that is still having issues is Mosul.
Iraq is a place then is completely different than anything you can imagine, they way they live, exceptions of life and what to expect. I could tell you for days what to expect and it will still not prepare you for what you will see.
It kinda matters since the subject we are talking about is Iraq. If we were talking about Vietnam then it would be a different story. ( I would like to know what unit were you and what was your job)
Now about My Lai there will always be cases, but were not the majority of how we acted.
Actually the majority if not all was Russian made. With Russian RPG-3 grenades. But a lot of the IEDs and UXOs were from the Iran and Iraq war. You can still go to the boarder and find unexploded mortars and such. Also you really think that we are the only ones that use those type of rounds?
I take it your talking about such groups as VVAW/VFP?
I say again contractors can come in all shape and sizes, honorable or corrupt. No different then outside the Military.
What do I get out of this? That it is to show anyone who is reading that you have no interest in a honest debate once any statements you have to say are challenged.
Prove me wrong.
The reason that I consider Iraq not to be a civil war is that I see a civil war to be just that a war. No just a few random bombings do not simply fit that. Considering that there are many bombings all over the world with the most recent one in Russia.
If this was a real honest to god civil war I expect to have real planned attacks by organized forces. Not some fourth rate terror group that would be the equivalent the Branch Davidians. This is the area that I worked it, it would be different if it was a place like Mosul. But it is not.
If I may ask when did you serve?
Now about 9/11 one of the big thing is not that there was a conspiracy to comment 9/11 but what happened afterwards with all the different laws that were passed. But everyone was so caught up in "It was a inside job" that they did not pay any attention what was being passed because you cannot say it in 30 seconds.
Because when I think of civil war I think of Yugoslavia and that world has a lot of violence that comes with it. People want to use the word civil war because it has a direct link massive deaths war crimes, and everything that comes with it. But going in in this area it was nothing like these images that a civil war invokes.
Now lets get into the whole Iraq invasion. This relates to 9/11 subject in that people were asking the wrong questions. The wrong ones were trying to some how prove that the invasion was illegal (which it was not). The right ones were; Should we be doing this with a active operation in Afghanistan that was neglected because of this invasion. The second is the lack of a working post invasion plan that was based on our system and not theirs. (That is one of the big changes that was included in the surge).
Now you bring up warring factions again. One thing that came up for that was the foreign fighters managed to anger the local population. The Sons of Iraq are a good example of this. The only people we have been siding with are the local groups from Iraq and not the foreign fighters that are just looking for holy war and 72 virgins regardless of who gets hurt. That is one of the reason that people turned on them.
http://www.iraqwarlogs.com/2010/10/22/sons-of-iraq/
Iraq has a lot of things that went wrong but there many things that are going right. The Diyala province is one of them.
Also if you notice JTMcPhee in his writings that anyone that disagree with it the "enemy" and has no problem doing anything that they can to diminishes the things that people have done to help in Iraq or in any other operations.
So your claiming that the only people that consider Iraq a successful ether gets off on killing or stole money by being a contractor (regardless of if it really happened or not).
As far as the first claim, in the 14 months that I was in Iraq I never had to fire my weapon in anger. The majority of our actions was dealing with IEDS. Also that we got a change to help repair and improve how the populations lives. From repairing schools to road improvements.
Now about contractors it really comes down to that they are doing the jobs that the US military used to do that were done away with in the mid 90s. So to make up for the short comings contractors are used. Also consider how the use of contractors has grown over the years in the civilian sector that it is real not a surprise that their use in military sections would happen.
As far as the conduct of the the contractors depends of each one. You can have those like blackwater that because of their actions lost their contract to operate in Iraq and you can have the others such as the ones that guarded our forward operating bases that did their job with honor.
Lastly about the attitude, it matters because with your stereotypes that we are committing crimes on a daily bases and that our actions of helping the population gets actively ignored. But when liars like Jessie Macbeth tells people that his unit killed 200 people inside Mosque when he never even finishes Army Basic Training that it gets world wide attention.
"Of course there’s a civil war: that’s what the neocons wanted and that’s why there was no post-war planning."
One of the reasons that there was a lot of problems how things are done. I would say that assumption was the big reason why any post war planning to not work.
http://armystrongstories.com/blogger/nathan-moore/the-sweep/
The reference to the mobs was to compare what criminal groups will do to gain and keep power. What amount of violence they can get away with is one of the big differences here.
Also I have yet to say anything about 9/11 and Saddam. Which I think while we did not break UN/international laws that it we should not have invaded Iraq. The reason I went personally was that we should make sure Iraq does not turn out like Somalia with out anything close to a working government and ripped apart by fighting warlords. Which we are still dealing with in the terms of Pirates raiding ships in the Horn of Africa.
Also another concern what happened in the early 90s in the former Yugoslavia that lead to the the conflict there. Iraq and Yugoslavia are similar in that both nations were made from the remains of Central powers nations. Both had many groups that had bad blood going way back. Both had a Iron handed dictator that used force and bribes to retain his own power. The difference is that Tito died it lead to the break up in 1991.
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/bosnia.htm
http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/2008/08/concentration-camps-in-bosnia.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia
Now going back to the surge one of the big thing that it did was allow use to go into the more remote areas of Iraq. This allowed us to talk to the local leaders and village elders that were being neglected by the main Iraqi Government. The reason for these towns and villages (even Iraq Army and Police checkpoints) is the differences between our (Western) system and (Middle East) theirs. Our system is if there is something that needs to be down that everyone knows what is happening and that if some has to leave that they can be replaced. Their system is the exact opposite that information is horded and to be as irreplaceable as possible even if it means that the project is affected. If you are in charge of a village this will greatly affect those that you are in charge of.
Here are some examples of the differences and how directly going to these areas help.
http://armystrongstories.com/blogger/nathan-moore/the-sweep/
http://armystrongstories.com/blogger/warren-andrews/hearts-and-minds/
It is not just about raw troop numbers but how they are used.
"A disorderly mob is no more an army than a heap of building materials is a house"
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/bosnia.htm
It matters because if you have not lived a area how do you know what is regular crimes and what is not. A murder in a small town will have a different affect then a murder in a large city.
Also have you ever been to Iraq, let alone the Diyala province? I have been in many of the places that this author is talking about for 14 months.
It matters greatly because we are comparing it to our country. A better example would be someone claiming that there is a civil war during the 20s becuase of all the mob fighting and crime.
The PKK is a good example, they have been doing ter...rorist attacks on Turkey to the point were Turkey and even Iran have launched air and artillery strikes in northern Iraq. This has been going on for years and I have yet to even hear people call this a civil war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers%27_Party
The closest thing to a Civil War happened when Muqtada al-Sadr tried to cause the Diyala providence to revolt. But he fled the country for the safety of Iran while giving his troops a "fight to the death command". His army was eliminated as a effective fighting force. There is still violence but nothing really came close to a organized revolt after that.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=106617876019726&set=a.106615222686658.13383.100000145431507
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqtada_al-Sadr
Also with the IEDs the big change was that in the first part we were finding them everywhere, but now only if we look for trouble. Not to bring in the fact that Iraq has a lot of unexploded ordinances around on the east part of the country from the Iran=Iraq war that are still laying around.
No it is not. Noticed that the targets are pilgrims because they are softer and easier targets then military ones.
Yes there is violence, however to call this a civil war is not true. The Diyala province was the area that I was in from May2...008 to July 2009 with over 165 missions with the main cause of enemy action from IEDs. More so from actively going seeking IEDs to disarm/destroy them. Talking to the many of the people that had to deal with what was going in in Iraq in the past and the difference is staggering. The main area that is still having issues is Mosul.
Iraq is a place then is completely different than anything you can imagine, they way they live, exceptions of life and what to expect. I could tell you for days what to expect and it will still not prepare you for what you will see.