I find it amusing that settlements, vinyards, business and orchards are set up on occupied territory...when the supposed purpose of said territory is as a security "buffer"....Why place these things in dangers way then? These lying liars are shameless. I'm insulted they think we're so stupid as to buy this theft as being anything other than theft.
The Golan heights is just such blatant and obvious theft, they can't even attempt to use the lies they do for the West Bank. It's not even part of mandate Palestine...and the world stands by and allows this annexation? It is patently absurd. They might as well claim Ghazni in Afghanistan next...why not...forget international law in any way, shape or form....Netanyahu will just tell the Head AIPAC employee in the White House what's what. These thieves would have also annexed Lebanon up to the Litani if Hezbollah didn't stand in their way...that's just a fact.
Her reference was to the MOVIE 'Exodus', about the Jewish refugee arrival to mandate Palestine aboard the ship named "Exodus"....not the Biblical exodus.
Good comment. Very true.
Legitimately horrid actions carried out by certain Muslims such
as ISIS, 9/11, the Taliban, Boko Haram et. al. combined with amazing propogandistic conflation by anti-Arab/Muslim bigots such as Geller, Spencer, et. al. and just plain old war propoganda by US politicians and lobbying groups have all had their affect. US population is mostly apathetic about this even if they don't outright support Israel.
Yeah man, they will be committing suicide...but they'll be fine with it. They'll do it just outta spite to deny the Palestinians their prize of pre-1948 Palestine...and ethnic cleansing is even more likely as Lieberman and Bennett often like to bark. That is the mindset among the Israeli extremists and right-wingers. They might not keep it, but they won't let the Arabs have it again either. Some of the saner Israeli's might flee, but right wingers will stay till the end. You think the Israeli religious nuts are any less suicidal than the Muslim ones?
As for US, abandonment will not come until money is taken out of US politics...Good luck with that. In so far as US interests or population being in danger...They have been...for decades now. Has the US changed course? Nope. Money talks my friend and the US political class is awash in it.
Pre-1948 Palestine is a dream. Give it up. It's gone.
Palestinians are not helped by this fantasy. All it does it put ammo in hands of Netanyahu and his buddies to say Palestinians "don't really want peace".
What "hot" war are you talking about any way? The entire world supports the Palestinians up to and only including a two state settlement, West Bank and Gaza. As both Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein have pointed out repeatedly...going beyond that to isolate or destroy Israel-proper will leave the Palestinians just as alone as the Israelis are now. It's not gonna happen.
You guys are kidding yourselves and engaging in wishful thinking. That country is not inevitably doomed, ie. a return of pre-48 Palestine or any other such fantasies. Israel is sitting on 200 nuclear weapons and enjoys the total support of the US government. They will happily carry out an ethnic cleansing or "transfer" or even nuke the whole region to hell before Israel "falls". World will be outraged...but what will it do? US will protect them like always and nothing will happen.
The whole thing is a farce. Israel has no incentive to play ball as long as they know we have a Congress that will back them even against our own president. The game is the same as usual: Go along to mollify world opinion by convincing them Israel is trying to make peace...but sabotage it the whole way until the Palestinians become so frustrated they refuse to go along with the farce any longer, then blame them for calling off the talks. After that, sit back and relax while US media, Congress, etc. pin the whole blame on the Palestinians for walking away from talks, even though Israel had no intention of the talks ever producing anything and was sabotaging them the whole way.
500, 1000, 10000 settlements later, keep repeating the process until all that's left of Palestine is Abu Mazen's apartment. At that point some people might rejoice that a one state solution is at hand because Israel has backed itself into a corner and nowhere left to go. Nope! They will easily carry out ethnic cleansing, or "transfer" as Lieberman refers to it. Because why not? Who is going to say ANYTHING to them if they have US support? Our own government will lodge a complaint for PR purposes...but they won't DO anything about it.
I'd opine it's "different" for a couple of reasons:
1. It has the 3rd or 4th largest oil reserves in the world. An oil producer of that magnitude cannot be allowed to be an independent minded country. For instance, India defies us all the time...most recently on the oil sanctions.That's tolerable for India which is seen as just a market for our goods or a source of cheap labor, but not for an oil producer. Controlling oil as leverage over other nations, making sure it's traded in dollars and "encouraging" oil profits to be recycled into our own economy through weapons, bond and stock purchases are all national interests we've long maintained.
2. You can be a dictator, authoritarian or an oil sheikh that butchers half the country...but don't deviate from the neo-liberal economic model.
3. As Noam Chomsky has said, the Godfather cannot tolerate dissent because of the message it sends. Our establishment is still smarting over the revolution and they won't be happy till they reverse it. ..
You're presupposing that the war will stay confined to Israel and Iran. Israel knows that if the war escalates through Iranian retaliation, the US will enter it on it's behalf.
What makes you think Pakistan hasn't already given nukes to the Saudis? A.Q. Khan was makin' the rounds, and his Saudi buddies would have been a first stop. Is also well known by the CIA, etc. that Saudi Arabia was funneling money to Pakistan for their nuclear program.
If I had to guess, I'd say the Saudis have already gotten the bomb from Pakistan. It just hasn't been publicly acknowledged by the US for the same reasons that Israel's possession hasn't been..namely international law issues, US legalities concerning sanctions against a major oil producer that's an "ally", hypocrisy concerning Iran, etc.
In any case, Pakistan has an iron-clad security arrangement with the Saudis and the Saudis emotionally blackmail Muslims around the world with Mecca & Medinah, so they don't even need to have it in their physical possession. They can just consider Pakistani nukes their own.
Neither Israel or Saudi Arabia really care about Iranian nukes per say anyway. They know as well as anyone Iran would never use them unless they wanted to invite their own obliteration. It is about other interests, and this is one avenue of weakening Iran. Preferably, the Saudis and Israelis would hope to continually keep moving the goal post so Iran is NEVER given relief and that the economy collapses, leads to revolution and regime change. It is not meant to end until that. If Iran gives on this, next it will be sanctions for Hezbollah. Or sanctions accusing the Iranians of helping the Taliban. Etc., etc., etc.
This deal was dead before it was even announced.
Congress, including the Democrats, have shown they will buck
Obama when it comes to Israel. They are almost certain to strengthen sanctions and reject any deal the White House makes with the Iranians short of robbing the Iranians of all face and having them grovel as Israel and Saudi Arabia want.
I would be completely surprised if Obama convinces Congress to ratify any deal or ease the sanctions. I just don't see it given how much Netanyahu is bellowing in public. His public intransigence is no doubt to send the message to Congress of where he expects them to line up, otherwise it would have been kept out of sight and relayed privately.
Iran aside, I don't see where Likud and the rest of the Israeli right wing are going with the Palestine issue. The current trajectory either results in a permanent full-fledged apartheid state, genocide/ethnic cleansing/transfer or the cessation of Israel as a "Jewish" state. Even Hamas recognizes this and it's leaders have stated "no need for a deal..if we're patient, it'll all be Palestine in 20 years"..paraphrasing.
The Reps & their looney wing, Gingrich, Giuliani openly boast of rolling over the competition and annihilating liberal agendas & laws.
Dems? Seth MacFarlane got it perfectly:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9dUoxruCh8c
I find it amusing that settlements, vinyards, business and orchards are set up on occupied territory...when the supposed purpose of said territory is as a security "buffer"....Why place these things in dangers way then? These lying liars are shameless. I'm insulted they think we're so stupid as to buy this theft as being anything other than theft.
The Golan heights is just such blatant and obvious theft, they can't even attempt to use the lies they do for the West Bank. It's not even part of mandate Palestine...and the world stands by and allows this annexation? It is patently absurd. They might as well claim Ghazni in Afghanistan next...why not...forget international law in any way, shape or form....Netanyahu will just tell the Head AIPAC employee in the White House what's what. These thieves would have also annexed Lebanon up to the Litani if Hezbollah didn't stand in their way...that's just a fact.
Her reference was to the MOVIE 'Exodus', about the Jewish refugee arrival to mandate Palestine aboard the ship named "Exodus"....not the Biblical exodus.
Good comment. Very true.
Legitimately horrid actions carried out by certain Muslims such
as ISIS, 9/11, the Taliban, Boko Haram et. al. combined with amazing propogandistic conflation by anti-Arab/Muslim bigots such as Geller, Spencer, et. al. and just plain old war propoganda by US politicians and lobbying groups have all had their affect. US population is mostly apathetic about this even if they don't outright support Israel.
Yeah man, they will be committing suicide...but they'll be fine with it. They'll do it just outta spite to deny the Palestinians their prize of pre-1948 Palestine...and ethnic cleansing is even more likely as Lieberman and Bennett often like to bark. That is the mindset among the Israeli extremists and right-wingers. They might not keep it, but they won't let the Arabs have it again either. Some of the saner Israeli's might flee, but right wingers will stay till the end. You think the Israeli religious nuts are any less suicidal than the Muslim ones?
As for US, abandonment will not come until money is taken out of US politics...Good luck with that. In so far as US interests or population being in danger...They have been...for decades now. Has the US changed course? Nope. Money talks my friend and the US political class is awash in it.
Pre-1948 Palestine is a dream. Give it up. It's gone.
Palestinians are not helped by this fantasy. All it does it put ammo in hands of Netanyahu and his buddies to say Palestinians "don't really want peace".
What "hot" war are you talking about any way? The entire world supports the Palestinians up to and only including a two state settlement, West Bank and Gaza. As both Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein have pointed out repeatedly...going beyond that to isolate or destroy Israel-proper will leave the Palestinians just as alone as the Israelis are now. It's not gonna happen.
"why AIPAC has such hold of US congress that not even one congressman speaks out against Israeli occupation and gross misuse of power"
$$$$$$$$$$$$$
You guys are kidding yourselves and engaging in wishful thinking. That country is not inevitably doomed, ie. a return of pre-48 Palestine or any other such fantasies. Israel is sitting on 200 nuclear weapons and enjoys the total support of the US government. They will happily carry out an ethnic cleansing or "transfer" or even nuke the whole region to hell before Israel "falls". World will be outraged...but what will it do? US will protect them like always and nothing will happen.
Good for the Kurds.
If I was a minority treated like dirt for 80+ years by a majority
I'd want independence too.
The whole thing is a farce. Israel has no incentive to play ball as long as they know we have a Congress that will back them even against our own president. The game is the same as usual: Go along to mollify world opinion by convincing them Israel is trying to make peace...but sabotage it the whole way until the Palestinians become so frustrated they refuse to go along with the farce any longer, then blame them for calling off the talks. After that, sit back and relax while US media, Congress, etc. pin the whole blame on the Palestinians for walking away from talks, even though Israel had no intention of the talks ever producing anything and was sabotaging them the whole way.
500, 1000, 10000 settlements later, keep repeating the process until all that's left of Palestine is Abu Mazen's apartment. At that point some people might rejoice that a one state solution is at hand because Israel has backed itself into a corner and nowhere left to go. Nope! They will easily carry out ethnic cleansing, or "transfer" as Lieberman refers to it. Because why not? Who is going to say ANYTHING to them if they have US support? Our own government will lodge a complaint for PR purposes...but they won't DO anything about it.
When has anything the U.N. says factored into the thinking
of Israel and it's allies in Congress. Moot.
" So why is Iran different? "
I'd opine it's "different" for a couple of reasons:
1. It has the 3rd or 4th largest oil reserves in the world. An oil producer of that magnitude cannot be allowed to be an independent minded country. For instance, India defies us all the time...most recently on the oil sanctions.That's tolerable for India which is seen as just a market for our goods or a source of cheap labor, but not for an oil producer. Controlling oil as leverage over other nations, making sure it's traded in dollars and "encouraging" oil profits to be recycled into our own economy through weapons, bond and stock purchases are all national interests we've long maintained.
2. You can be a dictator, authoritarian or an oil sheikh that butchers half the country...but don't deviate from the neo-liberal economic model.
3. As Noam Chomsky has said, the Godfather cannot tolerate dissent because of the message it sends. Our establishment is still smarting over the revolution and they won't be happy till they reverse it. ..
You're presupposing that the war will stay confined to Israel and Iran. Israel knows that if the war escalates through Iranian retaliation, the US will enter it on it's behalf.
What makes you think Pakistan hasn't already given nukes to the Saudis? A.Q. Khan was makin' the rounds, and his Saudi buddies would have been a first stop. Is also well known by the CIA, etc. that Saudi Arabia was funneling money to Pakistan for their nuclear program.
If I had to guess, I'd say the Saudis have already gotten the bomb from Pakistan. It just hasn't been publicly acknowledged by the US for the same reasons that Israel's possession hasn't been..namely international law issues, US legalities concerning sanctions against a major oil producer that's an "ally", hypocrisy concerning Iran, etc.
In any case, Pakistan has an iron-clad security arrangement with the Saudis and the Saudis emotionally blackmail Muslims around the world with Mecca & Medinah, so they don't even need to have it in their physical possession. They can just consider Pakistani nukes their own.
Neither Israel or Saudi Arabia really care about Iranian nukes per say anyway. They know as well as anyone Iran would never use them unless they wanted to invite their own obliteration. It is about other interests, and this is one avenue of weakening Iran. Preferably, the Saudis and Israelis would hope to continually keep moving the goal post so Iran is NEVER given relief and that the economy collapses, leads to revolution and regime change. It is not meant to end until that. If Iran gives on this, next it will be sanctions for Hezbollah. Or sanctions accusing the Iranians of helping the Taliban. Etc., etc., etc.
This deal was dead before it was even announced.
Congress, including the Democrats, have shown they will buck
Obama when it comes to Israel. They are almost certain to strengthen sanctions and reject any deal the White House makes with the Iranians short of robbing the Iranians of all face and having them grovel as Israel and Saudi Arabia want.
I would be completely surprised if Obama convinces Congress to ratify any deal or ease the sanctions. I just don't see it given how much Netanyahu is bellowing in public. His public intransigence is no doubt to send the message to Congress of where he expects them to line up, otherwise it would have been kept out of sight and relayed privately.
Iran aside, I don't see where Likud and the rest of the Israeli right wing are going with the Palestine issue. The current trajectory either results in a permanent full-fledged apartheid state, genocide/ethnic cleansing/transfer or the cessation of Israel as a "Jewish" state. Even Hamas recognizes this and it's leaders have stated "no need for a deal..if we're patient, it'll all be Palestine in 20 years"..paraphrasing.
This is all madness.