Hey, Tea Party. A foreign navy boarded an unarmed ship flying the flag of a NATO member in international waters and shot dead an American citizen with four bullets to the head and one in the chest on Memorial Day. It did this while the head of the belligerent state was on his way to a state visit to Washington, DC, to be awarded a further $200 million in aid on top of the $3 billion of American taxpayer money the US gives away to him every year.
If you are not upset by this, your tea is weak, man. Weak.
NOT to be pointless antagonistic or inflammatory, but rather to corner and expose the issue of what the US position on this ought to be, Obama (preferably) needs to be posed PRECISELY to right question in some setting where he cannot easily dodge. Along the lines of:
–Are the lives of Israelis more important than Americans? Or maybe,
–Do Israeli come before those of Americans? At what point?
–Choose your own. Think it through. Maybe someone can spring the right line on him with video coverage.
–Are the lives of Israelis more important than Americans? Or maybe,
–Do Israeli come before those of Americans? At what point?
******************************************************
Yes and yes, if the American is perceived to be liberal, possibly Muslim and a dirty f*cking hippie activist on a ship that is giving aid to those terrorist women and children who deserved to blown up, burned with phosphorus and buried in the wreckage of their homes (because they let people shoot those laughably pathetic Kasam rockets from a field nearby or something…).
Never underestimate the power of the “Israel is the the Promised Land and Israelis are the Children of God and can do no wrong” narrative in evangelical churches and right wing circles.
I was raised on it.
At first I thought I had inflammed you. Then I realized this was just a pretty straightforward observation.
In which case, all this handwringing is pointless. If you/we aren’t for them, we are against THEM, right? In which case what they are up against is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and its a matter of time before the inevitable happens.
Of couse, Israel can hope to delay and deflect the true reality (of not being special) indefinately and hope the Pals eventually give up or are “died” off to a person. Otherwise they need to gird themselves for a couple thousand years of resistance, which is how long it took THEIR fanciful narrative to come to fruition, such as it is.
Racism, and exceptionalism in any form, is ultimately unforgiving.
can you tell me what rights do people living in gaza have?
Many thanks to you, Juan for your excellent reporting on this latest Middle East tragedy. The US “response” (Israel: Jump! Obama, Clinton et al: How high, master?) is appalling and ultimately will serve it and indeed Israel poorly. What chance now of getting sanctions against Iran? (Not a good idea in any case.)
The Israeli “Megaphone” project is out in full force with their sudden expertise in international maritime law (the notorious dissembler Mark Regev has been on the BBC every day spouting it and other “justifications” for the attacks) and some so-called “liberal sites” (Daily Kos *cough*) have done their best not to offend AIPAC and other Jews for fear of losing money for the Democratic candidates.
To quote Pound’s version of ‘The Seafarer,’ our born brothers, their buried bodies/Be an unlikely treasure hoard.
Shame on Obama and Clinton, shame on the Dems for selling out their country, and shame on all those who ignore or enable the suffering of the Palestinians.
M.P
Wait for more Israel apologists spins coming from the beltway over the WE.
link to timesonline.co.uk
The Bilderberg Club consists of many pro-Israel politicos/diplomats and businessmen together with some royalties are meeting today and tomorrow in Spain. Rumours: Holbrooke a former participant, Kissinger -an elder and some pentagon types /advisors are present. Wonder if Susan Rice will be there or she will take her orders from her mentor Holbrooke.
Two yrs ago they met in Turkey and since then we have had some rep from that country . Will they be present this yr?
This farce cuts across both political parties. Mark my word. Just like Obama, in a few days the best Congress money can buy would pass a near-unanimous AIPAC-pushed resolution defending this murder and declaring the United States “unwavering commitment to the welfare of Israel,” as a Jewish (i.e., Apartheid) State. General Petraeus’ warning (speaking for the Pentagon) that Israel’s practices and policies endanger US troops, does not matter. Elections are always around the corner, US interests and American lives be damned.
Jimmy Carter was the last president to represent us well w/r/t the Palestinian issue. I wonder sometimes if Israeli apologists in this country think Palestinians live better in Israel (and the PA areas) than Iranians in Iran.
Jimmy Carter gave us the Camp David Accords which effectively isolated the Palestinians from any alliance with any of its Arab neighbours. Sealing off Egypt singularly (as well as Syria, Jordan and Lebanon) has sealed the fate of the Palestinians to rely on rocks rather than artillery against a nuclear power. Edward Said was blatantly against the Camp David peace agreement and you can see why, 30 plus years later, how without any major nation to counter against Israel, the Palestinians have been pushed to the brink of destitution and destruction. By neutralising the biggest and most armed Arab nation and having their side with the US, it made this conflict much more one-sided than it was back in 67.
The maritime law argument can be countered by presenting other laws by which the Gaza blockade is illegal, for instance. So the more the maritime law is presented the more obvious it is that Israel and other parties should be treated by the same standards. It is thus advisable for the pro Israel crowd to not talk about laws at all, unless they want to invalidate their own argument.
Another interesting argument is about how the Gazans in reality flourish under the blockade. The irony is that the presented luxury is based on smuggling, which Hamas controls. Hamas uses the proceedings to reinforce its grip. The few in power flourish while the rest of the population suffers.
So the pro Israel crowd is actually cheering the fact that the blockade makes Hamas richer and Israel less safe, which is opposite of the stated objective of the blockade.
It should now be easy to state, that ending the blockade is both lawful and reasonable.
And now we know why it took so long for the names and nationalities of the dead to be released. Thank you so much for all you do, Juan.
Whatever our differences here in America, and God knows our differences are deep deep deep, we can surely agree on one damn thing – NO GOVERNMENT MURDERS ONE OF US AND GETS AWAY WITH IT. Not Iran. NOT ISRAEL.
Don’t hold your breath, epppie. This too will soon be covered-up and forgotten. On June 8, 1967, in the middle of the Six-Day War, Israeli planes attacked an American ship, the USS Liberty, that was in international waters off the coast of Egypt. The attack killed 34 Americans and produced very little by way of investigation. The USS Liberty incident and its cover-up demonstrates that average Americans, even military personnel, mean very little in US politics and subsequent policy when it comes to Israel.
Incidentally, Joe Meadors, a survivor of the Israeli attempt to sink the USS Liberty and kill all its crew (witnesses), was aboard the Free Gaza Flotilla.
Let’s also remember that in 2003 American activist Rachel Corrie was murdered by an Israeli military bulldozer as she tried to stop it from destroying a Palestinian home in Gaza. That too was covered-up and quickly forgotten by the US government and Israel-firsters in Congress and the media.
Vice President Joe Biden today (June 2, 2010) praised Israel for raiding the ship, saying they “had a right to know” what might be on board.
Is Biden saying that Israel “had a right to know” whom they were killing? Israel killed an American! There are reports that the Israeli commandos were dumping bodies into the Mediterranean. Holy Precious Mary Mother of God, this is a shameful day for the United States. Biden would defend murder? Piracy? Terrorism? Golly and gee, President Binyamin Obama sure ain’t had much to say about this atrocity.
don nash,
remember as well, I believe one of Obama’s first foreign policy actions, was ordering the execution of those adolescent Somalia pirates. All of the DNC lovers were applauding that “successful” and “decisive” action.
According to Turkish newspapers, this young man was born in the US and lived there until age 2. Then he relocated to Turkey with his family. He’s a dual citizen of both countries. My guess is that the Tea Party response will not be condemning Israel for a citizen’s death but using his case as an evidence for changing the laws on citizenship.
I’m sure you are aware that there are discussions about amending the current application of jus sanguinis (birthright citizenship), suggesting the addition of a condition that one of the parents must be a US citizen at the time the child is born on US soil. Also remember the recent suggestions on stripping US citizens of their rights in investigations of terrorism.
I’m afraid that Furkan Dogan will not be the same as Rachel Corrie for the Tea Party people because of his ancestry and his beliefs. I’m guessing he’ll be portrayed as an individual who shouldn’t have had US citizenship in the first place. I hope I’m wrong.
oops, I meant jus soli, birth on American soil.
I hope you’re wrong too, and clinging to hope is why I feel you may be right.
Nope. The bloggers at Powerline are already claiming he should never have been allowed to citizenship in the first place.
Over at Balloon Juice, the pool has started for when McCain and Lieberman introduce a bipartisan bill to posthumously strip citizenship from any American killed by the Israeli military.
I hope I’m not stretching it but isn’t it treason for members of the United States government to support a foreign government that kills American citizens? If it’s not treason then what is?
He was a “Turkish-origin American citizen.” He wasn’t white and he even had a funny sounding name! They’ll probably want to see his birth certificate before believing he is a citizen.
They’d just insist it was a forgery and demand to see the real one.
FYI. If you, hopefully as white person, ever find yourself broken down in the REAL america, or otherwise needing to deal with such REAL americans, then the colloquialism of choice for those unlike you is mud-people.
The above remarks represent Americans talking to Washington….Washington sees nothing wrong with killing innocent people if it is a strategy in the latest foreign policy proposal from the favorite think tank of the season.
Hate to be blunt, but the tea party crowd does not give a flying frak if an American who is:
A. Muslim
B. An activist for any cause they hate (like peace, feeding people with brown skins, etc)
C. On a ship boarded by Teh Awesome Israeli Military(!)
…gets killed. As far as the right wing is concerned, that just means there is one less left wing, Godless America hating mooslim traitor to worry about…and they wish the Israelis would come over here and help finish the job by killing a couple hundred thousand more to teach them all a lesson.
As an Irish person want to send condolences for the families of the Turkish and American activists who lost there lives including the 21 year old Art Student who lost her eye.
Obviously Israel is out of control. If all this was in Israels interests as a nation you could condemn them but admit they were serving there own interests… but the crazy thing is that all this damaging Israels interests and serves no good to them or anyone else. Just completely out of control.
No way Turkey is going to vote on the Security Council now for Iran sanctions btw. That goal is dead on arrival. Something also tells me that Europe is also not going to be to sympathetic to any Iran warmongering from Israel.
Literally the only people that win from this is the North Koreans since no one even mentioning their attack on a South Korean vessel anymore.
As someone says above, your work over the last few days has been much appreciated Juan.
At the risk of doing requests. Any chance you could give your opinion on this sort of thing?
link to timesonline.co.uk
Thanks again.
An American is murdered in international waters, and your response is making snide with the Right? That’s low.
Lower than if he’d been a Turk without U.S. citizenship? Or about the same altitude?
Americans give weapons to Israel, ostensibly to use to defend themselves against western asian states and then Israel uses them to kill an American? That may not be particularly funny, but it makes a nice break from having the Israelis use them on United Nations personnel.
“If you are not upset by this, your tea is weak, man. Weak.”
I was, of course, referring to the sinking of the U.S.S. Liberty:
The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter planes and motor torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and a civilian), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship. At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.[1]
Here’s the kicker: “….and it remains the only major maritime incident in U.S. history not investigated by the U.S. Congress.[3]
link to en.wikipedia.org
At least, 911, was sort of investigated by Congress.
Thanks, for all your work, Professor Cole.
Not to make too fine a point, but the Liberty was a spy ship, and Israel had just opened up its attack on the Golan Heights, which it had been coveting for some time due to its water.
Imagine an episode of Bonanza: Little Joe sneaks up to watch while one of their neighbors is unloading/stealing from another; He’s spotted and takes a bullet for it. The incident gets covered up since the shooter was considered Big Ben’s only buddy in the area and it was only a wing-shot (hate to tell you, these poeple are all Little People when it comes to the Great Game of Nations).
remember USS Liberty … aye, US Government is sooooo forgiving :P
You all seem so delighted at this tragedy. Perversity prevails once again, I suppose. No wonder the French say that Americans lack a sense of irony.
Whatever our differences here in America, and God knows our differences are deep deep deep, we can surely agree on one damn thing – NO GOVERNMENT MURDERS ONE OF US AND GETS AWAY WITH IT. Not Iran. NOT ISRAEL.
Rachel Corrie? The state department didn’t help her family so much in their search for justice.
Then there’s what General Petraeus said – unquestioning support for Israel is putting American soldiers’ lives at risk. That doesn’t seem so important either.
I’d like to know just how many people were actually killed in the Free Gaza Flotilla. Why were the numbers of nineteen or twenty talked about and then the numbers dropped to nine or ten? It reminds me of the numbers of people who died during the aftermath of Katrina; we’ll only know the figures that the Bush administration published.
It depends. The official hasbara-endorsed number appears to be nine; eyewitness reports and non-Israel government enquiries (into the well-being of their citizens on the Flotilla) give a number of 19 or 20 (with at least one person still being listed as “missing and unaccounted for”). Objective reality is almost certainly more in line with the higher number than with the hasbara.
Has it not dawned on most people, yet, that Israel is
(a) rudderless – no known national direction except for more settlements on Palestinian lands.
(b) totally corrupt – resorts to bald faced lies and fake photos to defend a murderous operation on the high seas
(c) completely incompetent – unable to storm a ship full of unarmed peace activists without killing and maiming dozens.
Exactly why is Israel allowed to …. do all this with impunity?
Exactly why is Israel?
Why Israel?
“Exactly why is Israel allowed to …. do all this with impunity?”
I can’t believe someone is asking this simple question. This is only because of unconditional support of US government (no matter of which of the two parties) for Israel.
Well then, “that” should be what we work on. Either the political aspect or the financial aspect.
What, exactly is the separation between “the political aspect” and “the financial aspect?” I remember reading MSM news stories about the 2008 US election campaign that basically said contributions from Jewish donors in six states constituted the majority of funds donated to the Democratic Party in that cycle. I fully understand that people have a right to expect a return on their investment; that is why I support solely public funding for Federal elections. Get corporations and foreign government lobbies (e.g., AIPAC) out of the “Best” Congress Money Can Buy™.
The American people are NOT Israel’s Bitch.. Congress is..!!
Make no mistake about it Jews, the American public, as well as the world are on to you, we will F*ck you up when it comes down to it.
“USA PATRIOT” here is Exhibit A in why there needs to be a Jewish homeland. Any one else here care to condemn his calls for violence against Jews? Well, I guess the moderator sees it as a legitimate point of debate.
Your new friends: Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, Don Black.
Would it surprise you to learn that not all Jews are Israeli and not all Jews support Israel’s thuggishness.
I should add that not all Israelis are Jews and not all Israelis support Israel’s murderous tendancies.
The Taxed-Enough-Already doesn’t mind sending billions annually to Israel, they just hate to have the money used here to help homeless, unemployed and other people who aren’t “chosen” by their god to do no wrong.
And someone spiked Juan’s tea. Why is this a Tea-Party thing? You’re confusing *ALL* Tea-Partiers with a few Neo-Conservatives over ONE issue. In fact a number of folks are shaking their heads and wondering if this is where Israel explicitly has gone too far.
The Neo-Cons are trying (with only some success) to hijack the movement. But your ill-informed demonizing of the whole big tent doesn’t help matters. And who’s in power now? It’s not the conservatives, it’s your boyz Barry, Joe, and Nancy. And where are they on this? Clean your own glass house and stop drinking the Kool-Aid before you start lobbing stones.
This is not a tea-party issue. This is a bi-partisan ‘who’s on the payroll of AIPAC’ issue. And it’s only going to be solved by removing incumbents. Unless you like this current horrorshow situation.
-Drunken Economist
link to mindtaker.blogspot.com
link to twitter.com
There are two Tea Parties:
1) Sarah Palin’s
2) Ron Paul’s.
The Ron Paul wing is 100% in agreement with Professor Cole about Israel. Palin, on the other hand, seems oblivious to this.
Actually, Ron Paul’s wing of the Tea Party doesn’t care. Their position is get America out of the Middle East so that they can continue to not care. Their non-interventionalists, and they’re equally upset about all the money we give to Egypt/Saudi Arabia, and bristle at the power of the Turkish lobby as well as the Israeli one. Not to say they’re not potential allies, but don’t confuse their position with your own.
Real good point…..once we start acting in America’s best interest we can argue about what that may be, but to put the Israeli Right Wing first is nuts.
All Israel’s are not Jews: no, but those that matter and have any power certainly are (80% +/-). Many, perhaps most(?) Jews worldwide disagree fundamentally with Israel govt policies going back to say 1967 (when the BIG land grab commenced), but the more adamant control things. A moderate, at some point, will pack his bags and leave, as many Israelis now do when the opportunity arises. The Right Wingers, however, will KILL whomever doesn’t go for their implicit (explicit) racial purity, uber alles agenda (remember the traitor who signed the Oslo accords: the assassin is now an unofficial hero in a min security tennis camp).
Given the effectiveness of Israel and AIPAC in influencing U.S. foreign policy by bullying government officials and politicians, Israel is rapidly becoming one of the greatest threats to American national security in existence. It seems likely that we may someday regret having so heavily subsidized Israeli military might and nuclear weapons capabilities.
If the Tea Party truly wants to cut back on the size of government, it might start by eliminating one branch–Israel.
Well said Dorothy!
Juan,
MideastWire blog posted an interview with Joe Biden from the Friday Lunch Club. Biden says that Hamas launched 3000 rockets into Israel during the last conflict, and makes several other missteps. I know you have respect for Biden, and that he has impressed you by actually reading your articles (in DC?!?!), but this shows that he doesn’t have much more than a shallow appreciation of the facts in Palestine:
link to mideastwire.wordpress.com
FWIW some of the stragglers are still at sea. MV Rachel Corrie is due to be boarded (or maybe not) Saturday.
Off topic but Teddy Roosevelt nearly invaded Morocco due to mistreatment of a Greek-(not quite)American bon vivant Ion Perdicaris.
“This government wants Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead.”
link to en.wikipedia.org
Drunken Economist –
Remove incumbents so we can put in Sarah Palin, who wants eternal war on all Moslems and witches? (See http://www.talk2action.org for where she’s coming from.)
Ron Paul has muffled himself on peace issues to help his son in pro-war Kentucky. It’s all Confederate now, and when have the “small-government” Southern states ever sincerely opposed any war overseas? They were only against the Serbian war to get back at Clinton.
Hi drunken economist!
Welcome to juancole.com. As someone once said, “I don’t trust a man who doesn’t drink.” I would like to add, “I don’t trust people who are drunk on Kool-Aid who say they’re partying on tea.”
But I m happy to hear you state that some in your bag are “shaking their heads.” That’s something, at least. It’s certainly more than we’ve seen from y’all in the last nine years, beginning with your prophet George who was asleep at the switch, allowing 911 to happen, and then invading Iraq, and then praising the genocidal Ariel Sharon as a man of peace, and so much more…
Where were y’ll partying then? Where?
I wonder what’s up with you partiers, that you’re just now waking up and shaking your heads. Perhaps y’all have been asleep because of the $1.9 tri. Bush tax cut passed in April 2003 (?)… passed in Congress while America’s attention was distracted by the invasion of Iraq. Did it make y’all tea-happy to have so much tax savings… while Iraqis and Americans were bleeding their lives into the sand of Iraq? Did y’all notice? Maybe y’all were celebrating, like 85% of the American population was, glad about the tax cut that further enrichened the wealthiest 1% of America…
Unlike the partiers, we at juancole.com weren’t celebrating. While y’all good ol’ boys were countin’ yer money, we here at juancole.com were countin’ bodies… and watchin’ the cred of the United States of America disappear into the sand. But day by day Professor Cole was calling every play, every time, all the time.
How dare you insult Professor Cole?
How dare you?
Welcome to juancole.com, Tea Party. Welcome.
What’s all this talk of tea parties . It it because of Beck’s diatribe or Palin’s stance on israel? Both are Neo-cons. Everyone knows this.
Whether it is USS Liberty bombed by Israeli planes killing 34 American sailors, or Rachel Corrie is bulldozed by Israeli Army bulldozer or an American killed by Israeli commandoes on a civilian unarmed aid flotilla of ships, unless Israel is held accountable by American public, Israel will continue killing Americans & others, each time it will be more embolden to do any crime.
American public should demand their Senators & congressmen for remaining silent & doing nothing against Israel. By their silence it appears they have sold their soul, they are not working for America but act as an agent of another country.
In the long term it is not good either for America or Israel itself. It looks both are following the footsteps of the Pharaoh & both know the end result.
The American people have never valued the lives of individual Americans more than they have the triumph of the American way of life over all alternatives – whether they define it as Pentagon boots on the ground, American predatory capitalism run amuck, or worst of all Dominionism, the belief that America is merely the capitol of a global crusade to restore the world to the decentralized, arbitrary rule of the Biblical patriarchy. The libertarian wing is sure the corporate whores can do it better than the Pentagon or the theocrats, so it opposes war. But the goal is always a global slave plantation with “our kind” living in the big house and the unentrepreneurial darkies happy in the fields. It is an addiction well worth feeding with our boys and our subsidies and our unregulated safety – until it becomes too much of a hassle and we withdraw and claim to have learned our lesson. Then it starts all over again in some new guise.
Good thing BushCo abstained on the vote for UNSC Resolution 1860 that provides the legal force for the FreeGaza flotillas as it appears clear that ObamaInc, led by Biden, would have vetoed it. But 1860 is now International Law, which Biden and most of Congress advocate breaking. I think they are more barbaric than Tea Party folk; and whoever thought so many were Januses?
The Turks are really pissed and have started legal action. In fact, the Turkish government is helping individuals take court action! Now, imagine Obama’s Justice Department doing that. Seems the Turks are more civilized than US politicos; but then, that’s a pretty low bar, isn’t it.
juan cole, great work. haven’t followed you up to this point, but i surely will from now on.
[…] their film, audio and video recordings, and refused to return them (NYT). Juan Cole has more, and also notes that one of the people killed on the ship was a U.S. […]
I fail to see why any Tea party organization would have any interest in an event that occurred outside the U.S. and did not involve the U.S. government. The one U.S citizen involved died in part because he chose to involve himself with a declared terrorist organization and indulge in what any would view as a risky choice. His choices were his and the results also are his own. At least his government, nominally Turkey wasn’t trying to protect him from his choices. Tea party activists like myself want the government to LEAVE US and our PROPERTY alone. What happened there is not our concern as a Tea Party. Now as individuals we may have an opinion either for or against and many of us do on both sides of the issue. I myself have a concern regarding the level of force Israel used here, but again only as a private citizen, not as a tea party member.
YOUR property? Without pathetic governments of years and centuries past, this concept of YOUR property would be null and void, Tea-bagger.
Autopsies have been revealed. Shot multiple times in the head at close range. Sounds like IDF’s MO.
The so-called teabaggers’ slogans about big government and property, inconsistent with so much of their actual politics, make most sense when understood as a tribal code; they seem to be largely whites who are terrified that the non-whites might be horning in. If their problem really was with “big government,” as Professor Cole suggests, it would be outrageous to them that their federal tax dollars have underwritten the murder of a U.S. citizen, and they would never welcome–let alone demand–federal intervention when it suits the tribal agenda, as they do. As for the fact that they were completely off the radar until Dick Armey and others launched them after Obama was elected, and their collective animosity toward certain social/racial groups: hardly a coincidence.
Some data here:
link to depts.washington.edu
This is a national disgrace. And to hear Senators John Kerry (Dem) and John Coryny (Rep) avoid the direct question put to them by Jake Tapper (I believe) from ABC left me shouting treason.
The US is in truble when it cannot even pretend to protest the state killing of its citizens in international waters.
If my life as an American is not worthy of protecting by my government why should I worry about deficits and spending ? Step up Tea Party.