The rebels' announcement is just that, an announcement. I will believe it when the dust settles and there are really no foreign bases in Libya. Obama promised to withdraw all US troops from Iraq by year end and close Guantanamo, it doesn't seem to be happening. It amazes me that people rush to make absolute statements and take the rebels' or anyone else's claims at face value. What you get right now is mostly noise, you have to wait long enough to pull out the signal from all this. Only time will tell. You confuse advocacy and wishful thinking with analysis.
On migrants, exactly. So Sarkozy, Cameron, Berlusconi just can't sleep because of the plight of the poor Libyans, that's whu they intervened there, right? The same Libyans they turn back or keep them on Lampeduse when they try to immigrate to Europe. Have any of you guys ever lived in Europe? The racism here towards Africans is huge. So, don't tell me that Western Europe gives a toss about the plights of the Africans.
I live in Germany. Believe me, most Germans want the yank soldiers, their Landstuhl hospital, their air force bases, and their nukes out of the country. But, this is a country whose political leadership still acts out its defeat in WWII. You want hear vocal opposition from the elite against any US machinations. But, even they had the courage to stay out of one more wild west shooting game in the ME.
Harle. The current population of Vietnam is 87 million, compared to Libya's 6.5 million. Vietnam is/was mostly jungle, hence, the use of agent orange. Libya is desert, where it's difficult to hide. Vietnam was supported by the eastern block, Libya got much less outside help. These elementary facts alone could make a big difference in the military outcome. BTW, what's your point with the tonnage dropped on Vietnam? Too much, enough, not enough? The 3 million dead Vietnames enough, not enough? The West's first reaction to any crisis is brutal violence, well, at least when it's not about its favorite dictators. I am tired of it.
Look, nobody says that Gadhafi should give up power and there should be a transition to a more representative system. However, you are patently wrong when you talk in absolutes. The 'Libyan people' want this and that. All of them? There are no genuine Gadhafi supporters? You are a typical American who can only think in black and white, too many Hollywood movies. There are many interest groups in Libya, one of them is the supporters of Gadhafi. You ignore this reality at your won peril. I thought Americans learned something from the Mission Accomplished fiasco. The whole coverage of the Libyan civil war is reeks of hypocrisy and white man's burden. The world was dealing with Gadhafi a few months ago, all of a sudden he became the root of all evil, very plausible. You only show your own naivety if you believe this. Tell me what ad hominem attack I made against Cole? Pointing out that by his own admission Cole consults for the Pentagon is a fact. It makes him one of those near-governmental think tank guys, as opposed to a truly independent academic.
I never spoke about quagmires and stalemate. I hardly comment on this site. I only did so yesterday because Cole was on Democracy Now, which I usually trust. Gadhafi was beaten by NATO, as even rebels admitted it on live BBC coverage. They said without NATO bombing they would have been wiped out. It is not to say that their struggle is not worth supporting, but get your facts strait. You are kidding nobody, NATO bombed the hell out of Libya, just like it did with Yugoslavia. Well, Gadhafi and his hired guns were considered the legitimate government of Libya by non others then the UN and your own US government. Before you accuse me of supporting a dictator you should look in the mirror and yell at your own gov, bro.
People make derogatory comments about Glenn Greenwald, although Greenwald's geopolitical insights and moral consistency are light years ahead of Juan Cole's. Professor Cole has freely admitted to do consulting work for the US gov and the Pentagon, if I remember correctly. So, why would anyone consider Cole an independent thinker? He plays his part in creating a kinder, friendlier empire, coming soon to your oil-rich neighborhood. If you want an independent thinker check out Asad AbuKhalil's angryarab.net. Asad has the advantage of being an actual Arab, thus, giving a fresh perspective on the ME, compared to these Western intellectuals who reek of white man's burden.
Unlike real hard science, social science does not have predictive capability, which explains the triumphalism and the told-you-so attitude that emanates from Cole's blog post; whenever political 'scientists' get lucky and events, by chance, turn out the way they 'predicted' they claim they were 'right'. BTW, why does anybody need a professor's 'brilliant' analysis to realize that a country of 6.5 million people will be beaten by the combined armed forces of 29 or so NATO countries, which together represent well over half a billion people? Gee, who would have thought? The surprise is that Qaddafi held out that long.
It's also sad that Professor Cole and some of his cult members on this blog are unable to recognize principled opposition to Western aggression, and resort to slander and dragging people's names into the mud. I guess it's a sign of weakness of arguments. But hey, Professor Cole, I am sure, will get more consulting jobs from the Pentagon. Useful idiots come to one's mind. I stopped paying any attention to Cole when he admitted where his money comes from. Unfortunately, Democracy Now still goes to Cole for ME analysis, instead of an actual flesh and blood Arab like AbuKhalil. I am tired of Westerners hijacking the narratives of even an supposedly Arab Spring. Yawn.
It isn't widely known that the USSR's meddling in Hungary in 1956, by current American 'standards', was NOT an invasion, because parts of the communist leadership actually asked the Soviets to intervene. Just like the rebels in Benghazi have asked NATO/EU (aka the USA) to intervene. I wonder if Prof Cole and other advocates of the bombing of Libya also see the Soviet invasion of Hungary as a humanitarian intervention. Me thinks not. The point is, you can always find local useful idiots who will ask you to invade their country; hence, this is a weak, transparent, and self-serving justification for meddling in others' internal affairs.
The fact that the 'democratic' rebel leadership mostly consists if exiles and CIA assets is another disappointing sign. Smells like Iraq, where a puppet regime was installed, swarming with people who had lived in the West for decades.
The sudden vilification of Gadaffi also reminds me of the propaganda war against Milosevic. I lived in neighboring Hungary that time, had relatives in Yugoslavia and can tell you, most of what the Western press spouted about the Serbs was at best exaggerated, at worst outright lies. I have no trust in Western mainstream media any more when it comes to crying genocide, massacres, etc.
Lastly, big disappointment in Prof Cole's consulting for the US military, or any military for that matter. I think a true academic, a free thinker won't help the war machine in its adventures. Cole is not an independent mind for me any more, rather an embedded 'academic', or like those sociologists who work for Human Terrain System teams. Or the psychologists at Gitmo. Sad to see how militarized US society has become, including academia. Chomsky grows in my eyes every day.
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The rebels' announcement is just that, an announcement. I will believe it when the dust settles and there are really no foreign bases in Libya. Obama promised to withdraw all US troops from Iraq by year end and close Guantanamo, it doesn't seem to be happening. It amazes me that people rush to make absolute statements and take the rebels' or anyone else's claims at face value. What you get right now is mostly noise, you have to wait long enough to pull out the signal from all this. Only time will tell. You confuse advocacy and wishful thinking with analysis.
On migrants, exactly. So Sarkozy, Cameron, Berlusconi just can't sleep because of the plight of the poor Libyans, that's whu they intervened there, right? The same Libyans they turn back or keep them on Lampeduse when they try to immigrate to Europe. Have any of you guys ever lived in Europe? The racism here towards Africans is huge. So, don't tell me that Western Europe gives a toss about the plights of the Africans.
I live in Germany. Believe me, most Germans want the yank soldiers, their Landstuhl hospital, their air force bases, and their nukes out of the country. But, this is a country whose political leadership still acts out its defeat in WWII. You want hear vocal opposition from the elite against any US machinations. But, even they had the courage to stay out of one more wild west shooting game in the ME.
Harle. The current population of Vietnam is 87 million, compared to Libya's 6.5 million. Vietnam is/was mostly jungle, hence, the use of agent orange. Libya is desert, where it's difficult to hide. Vietnam was supported by the eastern block, Libya got much less outside help. These elementary facts alone could make a big difference in the military outcome. BTW, what's your point with the tonnage dropped on Vietnam? Too much, enough, not enough? The 3 million dead Vietnames enough, not enough? The West's first reaction to any crisis is brutal violence, well, at least when it's not about its favorite dictators. I am tired of it.
Look, nobody says that Gadhafi should give up power and there should be a transition to a more representative system. However, you are patently wrong when you talk in absolutes. The 'Libyan people' want this and that. All of them? There are no genuine Gadhafi supporters? You are a typical American who can only think in black and white, too many Hollywood movies. There are many interest groups in Libya, one of them is the supporters of Gadhafi. You ignore this reality at your won peril. I thought Americans learned something from the Mission Accomplished fiasco. The whole coverage of the Libyan civil war is reeks of hypocrisy and white man's burden. The world was dealing with Gadhafi a few months ago, all of a sudden he became the root of all evil, very plausible. You only show your own naivety if you believe this. Tell me what ad hominem attack I made against Cole? Pointing out that by his own admission Cole consults for the Pentagon is a fact. It makes him one of those near-governmental think tank guys, as opposed to a truly independent academic.
I never spoke about quagmires and stalemate. I hardly comment on this site. I only did so yesterday because Cole was on Democracy Now, which I usually trust. Gadhafi was beaten by NATO, as even rebels admitted it on live BBC coverage. They said without NATO bombing they would have been wiped out. It is not to say that their struggle is not worth supporting, but get your facts strait. You are kidding nobody, NATO bombed the hell out of Libya, just like it did with Yugoslavia. Well, Gadhafi and his hired guns were considered the legitimate government of Libya by non others then the UN and your own US government. Before you accuse me of supporting a dictator you should look in the mirror and yell at your own gov, bro.
People make derogatory comments about Glenn Greenwald, although Greenwald's geopolitical insights and moral consistency are light years ahead of Juan Cole's. Professor Cole has freely admitted to do consulting work for the US gov and the Pentagon, if I remember correctly. So, why would anyone consider Cole an independent thinker? He plays his part in creating a kinder, friendlier empire, coming soon to your oil-rich neighborhood. If you want an independent thinker check out Asad AbuKhalil's angryarab.net. Asad has the advantage of being an actual Arab, thus, giving a fresh perspective on the ME, compared to these Western intellectuals who reek of white man's burden.
Unlike real hard science, social science does not have predictive capability, which explains the triumphalism and the told-you-so attitude that emanates from Cole's blog post; whenever political 'scientists' get lucky and events, by chance, turn out the way they 'predicted' they claim they were 'right'. BTW, why does anybody need a professor's 'brilliant' analysis to realize that a country of 6.5 million people will be beaten by the combined armed forces of 29 or so NATO countries, which together represent well over half a billion people? Gee, who would have thought? The surprise is that Qaddafi held out that long.
It's also sad that Professor Cole and some of his cult members on this blog are unable to recognize principled opposition to Western aggression, and resort to slander and dragging people's names into the mud. I guess it's a sign of weakness of arguments. But hey, Professor Cole, I am sure, will get more consulting jobs from the Pentagon. Useful idiots come to one's mind. I stopped paying any attention to Cole when he admitted where his money comes from. Unfortunately, Democracy Now still goes to Cole for ME analysis, instead of an actual flesh and blood Arab like AbuKhalil. I am tired of Westerners hijacking the narratives of even an supposedly Arab Spring. Yawn.
It isn't widely known that the USSR's meddling in Hungary in 1956, by current American 'standards', was NOT an invasion, because parts of the communist leadership actually asked the Soviets to intervene. Just like the rebels in Benghazi have asked NATO/EU (aka the USA) to intervene. I wonder if Prof Cole and other advocates of the bombing of Libya also see the Soviet invasion of Hungary as a humanitarian intervention. Me thinks not. The point is, you can always find local useful idiots who will ask you to invade their country; hence, this is a weak, transparent, and self-serving justification for meddling in others' internal affairs.
The fact that the 'democratic' rebel leadership mostly consists if exiles and CIA assets is another disappointing sign. Smells like Iraq, where a puppet regime was installed, swarming with people who had lived in the West for decades.
The sudden vilification of Gadaffi also reminds me of the propaganda war against Milosevic. I lived in neighboring Hungary that time, had relatives in Yugoslavia and can tell you, most of what the Western press spouted about the Serbs was at best exaggerated, at worst outright lies. I have no trust in Western mainstream media any more when it comes to crying genocide, massacres, etc.
Lastly, big disappointment in Prof Cole's consulting for the US military, or any military for that matter. I think a true academic, a free thinker won't help the war machine in its adventures. Cole is not an independent mind for me any more, rather an embedded 'academic', or like those sociologists who work for Human Terrain System teams. Or the psychologists at Gitmo. Sad to see how militarized US society has become, including academia. Chomsky grows in my eyes every day.