Fox News: 12 Year Old Girl Tells the Truth about Georgia
Ooops. Fox News Interviews an Ossetian-American 12-year-old girl who thanks Russian troops for saving her from Georgian aggression.
But Fox News was obviously not happy with the way the interview went.
Gee,that isn't that master narrative in the US military-information complex.
Hat tip: Technorati.com.
(Of course the Russians contravened international law, too, but Saakashvili's attack on the Ossetians was not exactly saintly).
posted by Juan Cole @ 8/18/2008 05:00:00 AM
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It seems that the 2000 deaths attributed to the 08-08-08 artillery bombardment, by the Georgian military of the South Ossetian city of Tskhinvali has been called ito question by the WSJ recently...
http://www.wsj.com/article/SB1218747...=psp_whatsnews
[quote] "On the ground in South Ossetia -- the contested region where fighting broke out last week between Georgia and Russia -- there was little evidence that Georgian attacks killed thousands of civilians, as Russia has said. Doctors said they had treated a few hundred people and one cited a confirmed death toll in the dozens.
...on the ground in Tskhinvali, where most of the fighting during the five-day conflict occurred, there is little evidence of a high death toll.
...In the city's main hospital, Ada Djueva said she and her colleagues had handled 45 corpses and about 273 injured people. During the fighting, when patients had been evacuated to the cellar, she said 220 surgical operations were conducted.
...Russian Col. Igor Konoshenko said there had earlier been "a sea of bodies" in the city's streets, including many women, children and elderly people. He said many were buried close to where they fell because of the heat and the continuing conflict, only to be reburied in the cemetery on Thursday.
...The Russian army declined to show journalists the city's cemetery, where it says many of the dead are buried. Lt. Col. Andrei Bobrun said that local people were hostile to Western journalists because of U.S. support for Georgia and a visit to the graveyard could be dangerous.
The civil-liberties group Human Rights Watch, which accused both Russian and Georgian troops of causing civilian casualties, issued a report Wednesday suggesting that the number of dead in Tskhinvali was in the dozens, not more."[/quote]
All that said, the 2000 deaths were widely reported in the media, as the Russian armour clanked into Georgia.
Is there some official figures that we can accept , from Red Cross on whatever?
Can someone recommend a good source for background on Ossetia and its breakaway-from-Georgia history?
As he tries frantically to run to woman and her niece out of time, cuts her off..... "I know you're a hero in San Francisco and understandably"
That shut out last few seconds
Incredible.
Wag the Dog?
"Immediate Response 08 (IR08) was an annual bilateral security-cooperation exercise conducted between the U.S. and NATO and coalition partners...being conducted in the Republic of Georgia."
Dates? 7/15 to 7/30. Georgia moved troops into the Ossetia region on Aug 2-3. Coincidence?
See also:
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/08/military_georgia_080808w/
and
http://motls.blogspot.com/2008/08/georgia-attacks-south-ossetia.html
"Nevertheless, there exists a stunning degree of hypocrisy and double standards among most Western journalists and even the politicians. So don't expect that these folks will be celebrating the new Ossetian independence or organizing international tribunals for the Georgian aggressors."
What to make of this grand little war?
Possible narratives:
1) This is a deliberate and organized program by the Bush Admin to increase military tensions across the region, from Ukraine to Poland to Georgia, which will lead to more arms sales, as well as distracting attention from the Republican record on Iraq and Afghanistan. Russia's response was more-or-less as expected. U.S. leaders are exultant, and are racing to pursue a similar strategy in Ukraine.
2) Russia took advantage of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict, which dates to the dissolution of the Soviet Union, in order to expand military control of a critical pipeline transit route. Russia also views Georgia today much as the U.S. viewed Cuba at the height of the Cold War - thus, the systematic destruction of Georgian military bases. U.S. leaders are devastated by the events, and are now acting to restrain Russian aggression.
Everyone's got a story. Some more things to think about:
A) This will lead to a new alliance between Iran and Russia, and likely a new regional arms race, which may have been the real goal of Team Bush, who will be exiting for the private sector of the military-industrial complex in a matter of months.
B) There has been no disruption of oil supply and no spike in price. There are also reports about Russia "attempts" to bomb trans-Georgia pipelines - probably deliberate misses intended to send a warning signal. However, oil prices might have fallen steeply without this event.
C) Iraq and Afghanistan are no longer on the front pages. No stories like this one: "37 killed in Afghan battle amid surge in violence - Aug 17" Instead, we get Cold War realpolitik...
Misson Accomplished?
jte,
The International Crisis Group, www.crisisgroup.org, has quite a bit of background information. It appears that they have been tracking this for a long time. As a result, there are reports prior to the current conflict.
wikipedia has an entry on South Ossetia. You may find links to other sources there.
www.eurasianet.org (Eurasianet) has reporting on this region.
Best
"Of course the Russians contravened international law, too, but Saakashvili's attack on the Ossetians was not exactly saintly."
Of course, of course, of course. What a weasely way to hedge.
jte--The Wikipedia page on Ossetia does a pretty good job providing the info you're after. I would also suggest looking at the history of Georgia and its current chronic economic problems. Given the chronic nature of Georgia's economic problems, it is plain to see why it was easy to get the BTC pipeline laid. I would also suggest going to a university library to get a book that details the long ordeal of Tsarist Russia's southern advance toward the Black Sea. Sabres of Paradise, either the original or updated versions, will give you some insight, but it should be supplemented with other sources.
The history of the Caucasus and its peoples is very convoluted, and most of the primary sources are written in either Russian or Turkish, although some translations exist. The objectivity of most English language sources must always be questioned, especially those written during the Cold War. There are a few good books about the Caucusus published in England prior to WW1 that most major university libraries should have.
Watching Fox news is like licking the floors of a leper colony. The only good result is that there is no bad result but the odds are against no bad result.
to paraphrase churchill, a live neocon is a war in prospect
For jte:
I am sure there are deeper resources than this, but here is some quick info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_(2008)
Regarding Georgia and South Ossetia, Eric Margolis asks: CRISIS IN THE CAUCASUS. WHAT WERE THEY SMOKING IN THE WHITE HOUSE? (http://www.ericmargolis.com/). Still wonder how almost all of the US media completely ignores the fact that Georgia invaded South Ossetia, and South Ossetia incurred huge devastation before Russia came to their rescue. It is politically fashionable in the U.S. to make Russia the bad guy. It was enjoyable to see Fox News squirm when the 12 yr old girl and her mother try to tell the truth about Georgia invading Ossetia...pretty interesting!!!
pretty brutal invasion carried out by putin. let's not get carried away by moral relevancy - "hey, what did the US do in Iraq, after all?..." i think (mostly) everyone here agrees that the Iraq adventure was unjustified. but while i have nor respect for the fox news propagandists, i think it's clear that russia's massive tank invasion & bombardment were excessive. this had been planned for quite some time. unlike bush, putin is coldly efficient.
let's please not forget that the abkahzian and south ossetian "resistance" was part of a breakaway effort fanned, in part, by putin. georgia has valid recourse to force in order to maintain the integrity of its territory. i'm not advocating wanton attacks on civilians, but let's not just fob this off as one of those "well, they're all guilty of brutality so therefore nobody is guilty."
Ronaldo,
If you can see a difference between the WSJ and Fox News, I'll buy you a cigar.
It’s interesting to note the Russian media’s take on the current US position, vis-a-vis Georgia.
This Pravda OpEd on Condoleeza Rice is illustrative of what’s being read in Moscow these days:
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/17-08-2008/ 106117-condoleexarice-0
Let’s hope cooler heads prevail (preferably with a European lead) in the near future.
Can someone recommend a good source for background on Ossetia and its breakaway-from-Georgia history? ....jte
I too am looking for some good background material on this. Anyone know of any? Thanks.
billmon asks : “Since when, I wondered, had the United States bound itself in a collective defense pact with Stalin’s birthplace?”
1984 : “Midway through the book... the alliance breaks apart and Oceania, newly allied with Eurasia, begins a campaign against Eastasian forces; Oceania and Eastasia are enemies once again. The public is quite abnormally blind to the change, and when a public orator, mid-sentence, changes the name of the enemy from Eurasia to Eastasia (still speaking as if nothing had changed), the people are shocked and soon enraged as they notice all the flags and banners are wrong. This is the origin of the idiom, "we've always been at war with Eastasia." Later on, The Party claims to have captured India. As with all other news, its authenticity is questionable.” Orwell... explains that ‘The War’, apparent is unwinnable, and that its only purpose is to use up human labour in meaningless endeavour, destroy the fruits of their labours; and by ‘War Powers’, apparent enable the Unitary Executive in perpetuity, thus.
Well, don't you see people, this interview was set up, end of story..open your eyes, please, don't act childish!
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