Stealing the Iranian Election
Top Pieces of Evidence that the Iranian Presidential Election Was Stolen
1. It is claimed that Ahmadinejad won the city of Tabriz with 57%. His main opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, is an Azeri from Azerbaijan province, of which Tabriz is the capital. Mousavi, according to such polls as exist in Iran and widespread anecdotal evidence, did better in cities and is popular in Azerbaijan. Certainly, his rallies there were very well attended. So for an Azeri urban center to go so heavily for Ahmadinejad just makes no sense. In past elections, Azeris voted disproportionately for even minor presidential candidates who hailed from that province.
2. Ahmadinejad is claimed to have taken Tehran by over 50%. Again, he is not popular in the cities, even, as he claims, in the poor neighborhoods, in part because his policies have produced high inflation and high unemployment. That he should have won Tehran is so unlikely as to raise real questions about these numbers. [Ahmadinejad is widely thought only to have won Tehran in 2005 because the pro-reform groups were discouraged and stayed home rather than voting.)
3. It is claimed that cleric Mehdi Karoubi, the other reformist candidate, received 320,000 votes, and that he did poorly in Iran's western provinces, even losing in Luristan. He is a Lur and is popular in the west, including in Kurdistan. Karoubi received 17 percent of the vote in the first round of presidential elections in 2005. While it is possible that his support has substantially declined since then, it is hard to believe that he would get less than one percent of the vote. Moreover, he should have at least done well in the west, which he did not.
4. Mohsen Rezaie, who polled very badly and seems not to have been at all popular, is alleged to have received 670,000 votes, twice as much as Karoubi.
5. Ahmadinejad's numbers were fairly standard across Iran's provinces. In past elections there have been substantial ethnic and provincial variations.
6. The Electoral Commission is supposed to wait three days before certifying the results of the election, at which point they are to inform Khamenei of the results, and he signs off on the process. The three-day delay is intended to allow charges of irregularities to be adjudicated. In this case, Khamenei immediately approved the alleged results.
I am aware of the difficulties of catching history on the run. Some explanation may emerge for Ahmadinejad's upset that does not involve fraud. For instance, it is possible that he has gotten the credit for spreading around a lot of oil money in the form of favors to his constituencies, but somehow managed to escape the blame for the resultant high inflation.
But just as a first reaction, this post-election situation looks to me like a crime scene. And here is how I would reconstruct the crime.
As the real numbers started coming into the Interior Ministry late on Friday, it became clear that Mousavi was winning. Mousavi's spokesman abroad, filmmaker Mohsen Makhbalbaf, alleges that the ministry even contacted Mousavi's camp and said it would begin preparing the population for this victory.
The ministry must have informed Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, who has had a feud with Mousavi for over 30 years, who found this outcome unsupportable. And, apparently, he and other top leaders had been so confident of an Ahmadinejad win that they had made no contingency plans for what to do if he looked as though he would lose.
They therefore sent blanket instructions to the Electoral Commission to falsify the vote counts.
This clumsy cover-up then produced the incredible result of an Ahmadinejad landlside in Tabriz and Isfahan and Tehran.
The reason for which Rezaie and Karoubi had to be assigned such implausibly low totals was to make sure Ahmadinejad got over 51% of the vote and thus avoid a run-off between him and Mousavi next Friday, which would have given the Mousavi camp a chance to attempt to rally the public and forestall further tampering with the election.
This scenario accounts for all known anomalies and is consistent with what we know of the major players.
More in my column, just out, in Salon.com: "Ahmadinejad reelected under cloud of fraud," where I argue that the outcome of the presidential elections does not and should not affect Obama's policies toward that country-- they are the right policies and should be followed through on regardless.
The public demonstrations against the result don't appear to be that big. In the past decade, reformers have always backed down in Iran when challenged by hardliners, in part because no one wants to relive the horrible Great Terror of the 1980s after the revolution, when faction-fighting produced blood in the streets. Mousavi is still from that generation.
My own guess is that you have to get a leadership born after the revolution, who does not remember it and its sanguinary aftermath, before you get people willing to push back hard against the rightwingers.
So, there are protests against an allegedly stolen election. The Basij paramilitary thugs and the Iranian Revolutionary Guards will break some heads. Unless there has been a sea change in Iran, the theocrats may well get away with this soft coup for the moment. But the regime's legitimacy will take a critical hit, and its ultimate demise may have been hastened, over the next decade or two.
What I've said is full of speculation and informed guesses. I'd be glad to be proved wrong on several of these points. Maybe I will be.
PS: Here's the data:
So here is what Interior Minister Sadeq Mahsouli said Saturday about the outcome of the Iranian presidential elections:
"Of 39,165,191 votes counted (85 percent), Mahmoud Ahmadinejad won the election with 24,527,516 (62.63 percent)."
He announced that Mir-Hossein Mousavi came in second with 13,216,411 votes (33.75 percent).
Mohsen Rezaei got 678,240 votes (1.73 percent)
Mehdi Karroubi with 333,635 votes (0.85 percent).
He put the void ballots at 409,389 (1.04 percent).
End/ (Not Continued)

|
162 Comments:
Having examined vote counts in stolen elections, there are a few things to look for.
One, as you have started to do, is to look for logical irregularities, such as just over 50% for Ahmed..etc in regions where he would be expected to do poorly.
Another is the Black Swan effect. With actual rather than fabricated data, there will be anomalies, spikes if you prefer, in precinct by precinct tabulations. Falsified data tends to be smoothed out so as not to arouse suspicion.
Finally, look for irregularities in undervotes or overvotes. In a hotly contested local race, there may be as many votes in the race for Trash Commissioner as there are for the presidential election. If a local race is not contested, many people do not bother to vote, casting ballots only for their presidential candidate. People who commit vote fraud overlook this fact and tend towards filling in all ballots.
The unchanged percentages of votes for the candidates over 6 different official announcements (as returns came in from different regions) seems to be more compelling evidence of this being a fraud.
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8052/6a00d83451c45669e201157.jpg
There's an interesting post by Djavad Salehi-Isfahani, a professor of economics at Virginia Tech, here:
http://djavad.wordpress.com/2009/06/05/surprising-results-for-inequality-in-2007/
It was written on June 5, and concludes that Ahmadinejad would probably win because inequality in Iran had actually been improving.
I don't see any reference to a UN vote watch committee. This is so frustrating.
Excellent post (and comments thus far), Prof. Cole. I will spread this post widely.
My first reaction was similar to yours based upon reading commentary in the blogosphere and New York Times. But there was a commentary in the Guardian (address below) by Abbas Barzegar, a Ph. D student at Emory. His claim was that international media focused all their attention on the big cities like Tehran and took that to represent the attitude of the whole country. He argues that had international media gone to the south(poor) side of Tehran and to rural areas, they would have seen a very different electorate.
I would be curious if you believe that is a valid complaint or observation. Would it be similar if a foreign journalist sat in New York or San Francisco in 2004 and expected a John Kerry victory because they projected the attitudes of urban liberals to the rest of the country?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/13/iranian-election
It would have been far easier to just not allow Mousavi to run than to put an entire fix in the election after the first results have come in.
At least some people on the ground in Iran believed Ahmadinejad was headed toward an easy victory.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/13/iranian-election
We'll see what evidence comes in, but I think it is more likely that Ahmadinejad really won than that the results were altered by a massive fraud put together by Iran's Supreme Leader himself in a matter of hours.
There would also be a lot of people involved and knowledgable about the massive conspiracy Juan Cole is describing, at least some of whom would have reason to talk to someone.
Lastly, it is not contested by anyone that the pro-US faction in Lebanon received substantially fewer votes than the the pro-Hezbollah faction. It is important not to let our personal preferences shape our view of the legitimacy of elections.
This is the best example on why it was stolen:
http://tehranbureau.com/2009/06/13/faulty-election-data/
Arnold Evans - this only happened yesterday, and there seem to be plenty of people in Iran who think this thing was rigged. And the idea that this kind of election fraud is uncommon is just absurd - it happens all the time in a lot of countries. Undemocratic and quasi-democratic governments routinely do this kind of thing all the time. It's something that's hard to prove, and difficult to do anything about, but it certainly happens.
Cole's points above seem like fairly strong evidence that something is fishy here, and just saying "but election rigging is hard" and "some people thought Ahmadinejad would win" does not make a particularly compelling argument here.
I don't think anyone would have been surprised by an Ahmadinejad victory. The issue is that this Ahmadinejad "victory" looks deeply suspicious.
One of the Ayatollahs issued a Fatwa few days ago saying that electoral fraud was right and proper.
News coming out of Iran futher supports your thesis:
1) Party representatives were not allowed into polling stations.
2) TV footage showing Mousavi supporters being beaten and chased by plain clothed police, while those celebrating Ahmadinejad "win" are protected by them.
3) Ahmadinejad declared immediately after the polling ended that he won 64%, not far from the "official" result. How did he know?
4) The counting was so quick despite the 85% participation.
5) The head of the IRGC said a couple of days ago that he will not allow a velvet revolution.
there is no rigging. its the nightmare that makes you cringe liars. western paranoia is pushed again. congrats Ahmedinijad
The Terror Free Tomorrow foundation did an opinion poll prior to the election. Now granted it is just one data ;point. However they had two results:
a. Ahemadinejad led Moussavi by a margin of 2.4:1
b) Among Azeris Ahmedinajad led Moussavi 2:1
Sort of clouds the two propositions that Ahmedinajad's margin is prima facie evidence of fraud, as well as that Ahmedinajad beating Moussavi in Azeri locations also is some sort of "proof"...
Any thoughts?
At url below:
http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/upimagestft/TFT%20Iran%20Survey%20Report%200609.pdf
I fully understand that you are disappointed with the result as any would if he was following this election without any "esprit critique" through the prism of western media and academia.
Indeed in the west there seemed to be throughout this campaign only one candidate in Iran and on type of supporter (the green-girls of Mousavi) – even media like Al-Jazeera managed this tour de force of having debates with invitees reflecting only one point of view. Furthermore from the onset we were getting softened up in case the results did not go well in favour of Mousavi by informing us of the "shutting down" of Facebook – as if that site has any statistical significance in that part of the world...
As far as irregularities and outside pushes goes lets here are two of them
– Al-Jazeera English managed to have an exclusive lengthy interview with Mousavi aired the day before the election when no campaigning is supposed to take place
– It is Mousavi that did not wait the official results and proclaimed immediately – few hours after the end of voting – that he is the winner, in full breach of what you highlight in your article (The Electoral Commission is supposed to wait three days etc.) and this was suspiciously carried over by all western media including Al-Jazeera – except PressTV which tried to stick to the rule. I was indeed stunned as PressTV itself did not expect to have the results before the next day.
Last but not least if I understand your thrust it is now a dogma that only pro or pseudo-pro western candidates can win fairly and squarely elections. I advise everybody to look at Lebanon were Hizb Allah accepted the electoral outcome despite its coalition got the majority popular vote and found itself in parliament in the opposition. I do not recall any media complaining of this outcome or cry foul.
Back to Iran, To me it sounds more like a velvet type revolution that was nipped in the bud... by the people of Iran.
It is quite interesting how neocon Americans always shout "fraud!" when they don't like the result of elections, but when pro-US puppets win, it is always reported that the vote was "fine" and "not rigged".
All the ten points Juan Cole delivers can be perfectly applied to the Lebanon election, coming to the conclusion that the vote was frauded by the pro-US Hariri puppets and Hezbollah won in reality.
There is reason to leave Iran to the Iranians, and not to begin another round of American bullying. It is not for us to decide on the validity of the election, though we surely will. Linking the Iranian election to the election of President Obama, strikes me as having been a mistake.
Also, As'ad AbuKhalil was quite clear that America did not win in Lebanon either even with Jimmy Carter there.
Anonymous wrote:
"Lastly, it is not contested by anyone that the pro-US faction in Lebanon received substantially fewer votes than the the pro-Hezbollah faction."
Huh? That's an odd way to word it. Where's the evidence that's so?
My first reaction was similar to yours based upon reading commentary in the blogosphere and New York Times. But there was a commentary in the Guardian (address below) by Abbas Barzegar, a Ph. D student at Emory. His claim was that international media focused all their attention on the big cities like Tehran and took that to represent the attitude of the whole country.
Had Mousavi done well in cities and poorly in rural areas, there might be some truth to this. But Ahmadinejad won _everywhere_.
It's not only a Tehran thing, there were huge protests in Rasht. Even Ahmadinejad supporters know very well that the polls were rigged. Forget what that Emory student said, whoever he is. There is no chance in hell ahmadinejad got those numbers.
In response to Mr. Arnold Evans, you are absolutely correct sir. That's why a group of 13 mid-level workers in Ministry of Interior have taken refuge in Mousavi headquarters and released an open letter detailing the "fatwa" they were given on Friday evening to fabrcate the results. This has been reported in several independent new blogs including the most reliable, Entekhabnew:
http://www.tiknews.net/portal/
Take it with a grain of salt, but it's possible.
HI ALL! This is a poor IRANIAN young man from IRAN! They are killing people in the street now, they have stolen all votes by a massive vote fraud, they disconnected all cell networks in IRAN! They are criminals. They are TALIBAN! They are not human, they are wild people! PLEASE SAVE US ... We have nothing to stay in front of them ... Believe me or not, these bastard dictators are FUCKING all people NOWWWWWWWWW! And I know that you all just thinking of living in your calm hometown, but if you are thinking of us as something like human, for GOD sake, do something ... They destroy the humanity in IRAN ... S.O.S! Nothin' much to say ... :(((
If you do not believe in my words, please go and see yourself! We have no one to care about us as at least something like HUMAN, please ... please ... please do not let my brothers die! ...
http://omid57.blogspot.com/2009/06/blog-post_13.html
http://news.gooya.com/didaniha/archives/2009/06/089095.php
http://news.gooya.com/didaniha/archives/2009/06/089098.php
Actually, Prof. Cole's points are not so easily dismissed, as some here do.
And is this the same Minhaaj, fiery "revolutionary" against "the West" that's also posing in front of a Starbucks in his Blogger profile?
anonymous @ 2:30 wrote:
"Would it be similar if a foreign journalist sat in New York or San Francisco in 2004 and expected a John Kerry victory because they projected the attitudes of urban liberals to the rest of the country?"
It would only be similar if Bush then won the popular vote in San Fran, which of course he did not (83% to 15%). That is precisely why Juan attributed the results in specific cities, like Tehran and Tabriz, as being reason to suspect fraud. If Bush had won NYC (he lost 73.82% to 22.76%), there would be immediate suspicion of electoral fraud.
There is a point to be made about too much emphasis by Western observers of attitudes in main cities like Tehran. Someone said above that it would be like judging the attitude of the Kerr/Bush election from the attitude of those in San Fransisco. Good point but Bush never claimed to win San Fransisco....He got creamed there. How did Mousavi not take Tehran? Imagine the outcry if results showed Bush taking 50-60 percent of california, let alone San Fran.
I've yet to see a compelling reason for Khamenei to fix the elections. There's certainly plausible evidence that the election was rigged, but other than the personal vendetta, rigging the vote is a lot riskier than letting Mousavi become president. Mousavi, even with his large support, is not exactly Reformist and would not have had a significant effect on the stability of Iran. It's also pretty rare for Khamenei to get involved in politics. I suppose its possible that this was orchestrated by the IRGC, given that they stand to gain a lot from Ahmadinejad, though the top leadership would have known regardless.
Why should this surprise anyone? We have had tombstones vote in Chicago for years. In New York City, the Democratic Party, and not a political unit, runs the elections. Of course we believe the election in Iran was totally clean, honest, and above board.
I've got a gut feeling that these people have decided that if they are going to have to have riots to prevent the election from being stolen from them that they might as well riot with the goal of wresting Iran away from the Muslim Clerics as well. These people in the streets were all either kids or not even born when the Muslim Clerics took over after the Shah was removed from power and they are TIRED of the bullshit that is living in a country controlled by Muslim Clerics.
I think it's double or nothing for them, and they've doubled their bet. They want the government that has stolen the election overthrown, including the Muslim Clerics.
There is just so much evidence pointing to electoral fraud its not even funny.
Which is rather strange considering Ahmadinehad didn't need it to ensure a victory. The guy has wide support, it would have been a close call.
But it seems like Khomeni needs a class in POLL FABRICATION.
Lesson 1:
-When you are posting the partial results, make sure they don't create a goddamn line.
There's a big difference between the Lebanese. and Iranian elections: The former were supervised by international election monitors; the latter were not because Iran does not permit organizations like the Carter Center to assess their legitimacy. It's a false analogy.
That's what happens when the church or clergy takes control of a government.The people should run the government not the clergy.People are human and have different opinions and should not be forced to follow the clergy.Look what is happening in the US the clergy are turning to violence
[An Iranian]
Nice article. Some facts that I was thinking about and we can add to your list:
1. There are couple of Persian TV stations broadcasting from LA to Iran. Most people specially young people watch these TVs to get their real news as they don't trust the national news in Iran. The satellite of all these TVs and their broadcasting was attacked by disturbing signals from Guards in Iran so that nobody could watch them anymore couple of days before the election.
2. All young people in Iran and Mossavis observers were using SMS (short message system) to communicate they disconnected the whole network 1 day before election so they can not inform each other about irregularities.
3.All pro Mossavi web sites were filtered.
4. A newspaper owner did couple of days before the election a western type survey and asked people who they will vote for and got around 70% for Mossavi and %30 for Ahmadinejad. He got fired. Why ? because the plan was already to have the opposite result and they didn't want anybody to publish conflicting result.
5. The head of Guard 1 day before election said that when Mossavi loosed on Saturday people will go into street and we will crush them, that shows that they already knew the result that they had planned for people.
6. In Tabriz, Ardabil (Azari location where Mossavi was for sure to win) there were missing ballots from 11 am and people could not vote. People waited long time but they said we don't have enough ballots you should go home.
7. 50% of Mossavi observers didn't get their observer ID cards in time from the government or they were wrong and they were not allowed to enter the voting location so there were no observation at 50% of locations.
8. Before the election there was a secret meeting in Quom where it was said that if any other government comes our efforst in Phalestine, South America (which bothers alot US and shows we are in good location), and other locations in the world will be wasted. So it's our religious duty to do antything (including change of votes) to fight these enemies and their elements in Iran.
Without International Observers and a real democracy in Iran these things will repeat there for ever as people come and go and their history memory will be gone.
That line thing strikes me as difficult to believe also, which combined with the suspiciously rapid counting of votes raises doubts in my mind about the results.
Neil B:
It has been very widely reported, by a wide range of observers that March 8 received substantially more votes than March 14. I've never seen it challenged. Certain votes matter more than others in determining Lebanon's parliamentary allocation. Here is one example, but googling lebanon popular vote will get them from all over.
http://joshualandis.com/blog/?p=3263
If I had to guess now, I'd switch my guess to there being election fraud. Except that I don't see a Mousavi presidency as threatening to anyone with the power to order a fraud on this scale.
I'm waiting to hear the reports from the people who supposedly have inside information about the election results.
Well, I agree that the vote was rigged, but one of the points that I think might be expected is the fact that the other two candidates scored so low, especially with the actual reformer getting half the votes of the other. Considering the potential of a Moussavi victory, many would likely have voted for him rather than making a simple protest vote, like voting for the Green Party in the U.S.
Prof. Cole, Ahmadinejad won in Tehran in the 2005 elections. Moreover, he was the Mayor of this city before winnig that elections, so I don't see why should be unlikely his victory in the capital, as you claim in your second "piece of evidence".
I don't know whether the elections were rigged or not. Anyway, it is too soon to claim it and so far nobody has given conclusive evidence of fraud. I think is enourmously irresponsible to claim that the elections were rigged without clear and strong evidence.
Apparently the "straight line" analysis falls over once you look at the actual variance in vote shares: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/statistical-evidence-does-not-prove.html
However, some of the other commenters are totally missing the point by comparing the Iranian and Lebanese elections. The Lebanese elections are rigged by design due to the fact that parliamentary seats are allocated by religion based on 60-year old census data. Hezbollah's coalition did receive the majority of the votes, but it has no choice but to accept the outcome under the present constitution.
Incidentally, there was widespread and blatant vote-buying in the Lebanese election (http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2009/06/a_bargain_votes_in_lebanon.html) but this can largely be explained by the fact that Christian votes are worth at least 50% more than everybody else's...
I believe the Iranian election is as free and fair as the US election in 2000 (when George W. Bush won by faulty ballots of Florida and the outcome is decided by just 9 wise men of US Supreme Court) if not better. Also the Iranians are as good in deciding what is better for them as any American. Why people judging others when they themselves are ignorant, wrong and arrogant?
About the straight line in vote results:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/statistical-evidence-does-not-prove.html
Turns out a similar chart could have been made for Obama's victory.
I'm going back and forth, but now I'm back to thinking Ahmadinejad's victory is likely the real result.
The Right wingers are talking about how the election result puts an end to Obama's approach. I think it is quite the contrary.
One thing that is quite apparent in this election is that there is a rather nasty public conflict in Iranian leadership. Clearly there are many factors in the intensity of the conflict, but one thing that should not be taken lightly is that Obama's approach toward Iran has also played a role in it. All the threats of Reagan/Bush years basically united Iranian leadership, where as Obama's apparent non-confrontational stance have started to work in dividing up the Iranian leadership.
A clear winner in all of this is that the only way to make a change is to drop threats and start talking.
The linear graph does not prove anything; if anything it actually shows the consistency. There were over 45000 ballot boxes all monitored by the representatives of all candidates. So where and when the boxes were allegedly rigged? If Mosavi believes that boxes were rigged why he has not complained formally so that the authorities can start an investigation? He surly knows that without a formal complaint the authorities cannot start an investigation!
Rafsanjani and his sons were accused of corruption and Ahmadinejad promised to release the data after the election; and following that televised debate Rafsanjani published an open letter in the media and asked Khamenaei to intervene and also had a three hour meeting with Khamenaei but still no intervention or even a simple comment from Khamenaei. It is also important to note that Saudi media have been supporting Mosavi which during his term the relation with Saudi was totally cut off! And Mosavi visited Saudi a few weeks before election!
I think connecting the dots of the triangle of Rafsanjani, Mosavi and Saudi is more revealing than the linear graph of the election result.
PS: I voted for Ahmadinejad and as far as I know over 90% of my friends and familly also voted for Ahmadinejad.
The SMS text messaging system was shut down the night before the election day.
B from Tehran
Juan,
I often do not agree with your opinions, but you are right-on with this article.
The Mullahs are pulling an extreme fraud. Azeris and Kurds voting for A-Jad? Come on.
I am always amazed at the amount of people that not only think that the middle class should inevitably rule, but also assume that they are a majority.
A little more care on social class ratios in the country one is commenting on is advisable.
While it is true that the Middle Class is able to make more noise than the Poor; that does not mean that they are necessarily right, or that their aspirations are valid or even relevant, in the wider context of lifting people out of poverty.
Some here complain that Juan Cole's comments are nothing more that Western sour grapes. In point of fact the claim is not that there was in fact fraud but that there are indicators of fraud present. As a nation with a centuries long history of free and transparent elections, we have seen how free and transparent elections normally play out in numerous scenarios and we have witnessed all manner of attempts at fraud. Because of this we know when something smells of fraud because it not how normal free elections play out but rather indicative of how rigged elections play out. What we know from experience is that no matter how popular a candidate may be, it is never the case that he wins uniformly across _all_ constituencies and districts. We don't have to be Irainian to know that the "official" statistics as reported just don't happen in normal free and fair elections.
Anonymous @6:32pm - no one is questioning Irainians ability to decide for themselves, what is being questioned is whether or not the Irainian government is honoring that choice or imposing their desired victor in spite of the choice of the people.
Read the comments arnold. Not many agree with the analysis and comparison.
This article correctly reconstructs what has happening in defrauding the votes and will of Iranian people in this election. If there was no fraud then why arrests of the reformists and closing of their centers, why the soft coup and so much military presence on the streets, why the oppression of protests. After all if they are so sure Ahmadinejad would win why not letting independent observers and inspectors to watch over the election and verify its result.
The only good outcome of this massive fraud by Khamenei and Ahmadinejad camp on this election is that it has seriously undermined the Islamic government and has clearly showed who the real enemy of Iranian people is. This puts Islamic government in direct conflict with Iranian people and will lose even the iota support they had facing foreign dangers. This has certainly hastened the Islamic governments demise in the next couple of years (not next decades as the writer indicates). Contrary to Cole’s idea, I believe Obama has a historical chance to reach out to Iranian people helping them achieve their democratic hopes and must take a hard line with Ahmadinejad/Khameniei government. Now the whole formula has changed, Iranian people will not stand behind the fake government anymore even in the face of conflict and removal by a foreigner power. They have proven they are the new Taliban, the Khamenei/Ahmadinajad version of it and Iranian people will not have a problem if the world extends its hands to help them remove this oppressive Islamic dictatorship.
@Hubert A, Jr. In New York City, the Democratic Party, and not a political unit, runs the elections.
That's why NYC hasn't had a democratic mayor in 16 years, right?
http://www.persianesque.com/
this is one of my favorite sites and they have a compilation of some really good posts and updates on all this including a report on iranians in dc protesting against the electoral fraud that has seemingly occured.
It's all too common for people to lump all of the "Muslim clerics" together in a simplistic way, like one of the anonymous posters did. Let's be clear, a specific group of 'ulama hold a great deal of power in Iran, and those who have divergent views are ostracized, harassed, and imprisoned.
AEvans...your BIAS is showing.
Comparing to Obama's victory?
SHAME.
WHAT REASON but - no reason - would you have a freking clue if Ahmadinejad won?
THE PEOPLE in Iran are showing you what it takes to push back against tyranny ...
Stop with ideology and OPEN YOUR EYES.
---
I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps himself in the Constitution… than someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps himself in the flag!
What many people, including Mr. Evans seem to be missing is common sense. It is impossible that in a country like Iran in which ballots are counted MANUALLY, millions of ballots are counted and tallied in a matter of hours...In reality, we have just witnessed a Coup d'Etat...unfortunately, it was done very clumsily, because if we base facts on precedence, an 85% voting presence favors Moussavi, just like it did Khatami in 1997. I think the authorities were not expecting so many people to show up...and therefore they were not expecting Moussavi to win, which he probably did...
Until I see documentary evidence supporting a case of fraud in place of statistical inference and gut feelings and bogus polls, this looks a lot more like Venezuela in 2004 than Chicago in 1960. I want change in Iran, too, but I'd prefer it be from a genuine majority and not ginned up by Western political consultants.
It's dangerous to convince what may very well be a minority in Iran that they have international support to rebel against a rigged election when it may not be rigged and even if it were, we probably don't have the courage to step in and protect any actual rebellion.
There is nothing short of chokeing of freedom and oligarcy ruleing over the people of IRAN today by force as shown in the very little that is coming out of Iran due to communincation fraud. that in it by itself is proof of fraud....we can debate bs all day...evil is evil and its being displayed all over this country by its ruleing class.
To avoid a massive clash between the CONTROLLED forces of the governments of US/is-ra-el and the mid east...the truth of this stolen election must be told by everyone in the real media.
Freedom...for all...is at a turning point as of right now...the true of voice of the people, EVERYWHERE, must be known and these false prohets..including obomba...must be put in their place.
The power and control is in our hands...why must we give it to these monsters?
One reason for Ahmadinejad to win Tabriz could be the fact that he has powerful and rich friends in the area. And that he spent a couple of years as guvernor. So he has roots there and have made numerous trips to Tabriz.
I am always amazed at the amount of people that not only think that the middle class should inevitably rule, but also assume that they are a majority.
A little more care on social class ratios in the country one is commenting on is advisable.
While it is true that the Middle Class is able to make more noise than the Poor; that does not mean that they are necessarily right, or that their aspirations are valid or even relevant, in the wider context of lifting people out of poverty.
@ Arnold Evans
>I'm going back and forth, but now I'm back to thinking Ahmadinejad's victory is likely the real result.
You haven't gone back and forth. THat's the conclusion you started with, that's clearly what you want to believe, and why in the world should anyone listen to you?
Yup. I expected this kind of ObamaBot hype from you Juan. I don't claim to know who won, and it's quite possible that Mousavi did, but what is really going on here is a bullshit narrative intended to create yet another 'color revolution', essentially a US-backed coup. We'll find out,some time from now, that the US poured money into an orchestrated manipulation campaign. Or not, maybe it's just a media hype, but isn't it funny how the sketchy Mexican 2006 election, and the sketchy 2004 Ohio campaign didn't get this kind of Media hype (Obrador was treated as a sore loser and those who questioned Ohio 2004 have been treated as 'conspiracy theorists).
What actually happened doesn't matter. All that matters is that this fits the Iran Hate media hype, that this paves the road to war, and might even lead to a chaos that gives Israel the perfect opportunity to strike.
Did Moussavi win? I suspect not. I think the people of Iran didn't much cotton to Obama's clumsy attempts to both cajole and threaten them into electing a 'US friendly' leader. But maybe he did win. I suspect we'll never know.
But hey, Juan, you are doing your part to 'catapult the propaganda'. GOLD STAR FOR YOU!!!
I'm curious why the candidate that has redistributed wealth to the poorest of Iranians is described as the right winger. I'm watching the protests and the protesters appear to be Westernized Iranians wearing Dolce and Gabana T-shirts. So, in this case, are we saying that the upper class are the left?
I think that U.S interests are again distorting the picture, much as they did with the various post Soviet "revolutions" that were mostly about delivering the area to American imperial power.
I'll offer this challenge to those who choose to buy into the Mousavi hype: remember, please, the way the US has manipulated other 'color revolutions'.
And this; to the extent that there is real reason to believe that the Iran election was stolen, then let us EQUALLY concern ourselves with other sketchy elections. Like ours, for starters. Let's at least stop sneering at 'tin foil hatters'.
And here's another: while we are getting worked up over irregularities in Iran, rightly, maybe we could also be a little concerned over undemocratic regimes in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Palestine....
Known tactic used by supporter of oppressive regime in Iran as apparent by comments here: distort and clog the argument by arguing around insignificant details and never having any answers for major points.
Juan, The Guardian’s Abbas Barzegar pretty well refutes most your claims, above all the one that Ahmadinejad doesn't do well in cities, saying his last pre-election rally in Teheran may have drawn as many as 1 million people.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/13/iranian-election
You also miss something he didn't mention. Like Hamas winning Palestinian elections, maybe a fair number of Iranian fence-sitting voters saw this as a chance to say Eff You to American punditry, etc.
Wanna try again?
Look people, those of you who are saying "it might be the real result" – Mousavi lost by a landslide in his home town of Tabriz. He is ethnically Turkish, as are the people of Tabriz and they ALWAYS vote along ethnic lines. This is true in every election and of every candidate in the region. The one fact alone that the vote margin there was the same as in the rural centres where Ahmadinejad was obviously populous shows that this thing was massively rigged! Even if Ahmadinejad did win in Tabriz, he should have got even higher in areas where he is obviously popular, but he got the same! The evidence is staring you in the face.
Anon #2... Iran has pollsters, just like the US. Assuming Ahmadinejad's pollsters knew what they were doing, it's just as simple as US presidential candidates making the same call. It in no way supports a fraud claim.
As for Prof. Cole, he's been very right on a lot of things, but, when he's wrong, he can be way wrong.
an Iranian;
the only reason Khameneii wanted to keep Ahmadi again is that he does not want to see Rafsanjani (the guy behind Musavi) back in power again.
If Musavi become's Peresident, then Rafsanjani will get almost all his power back again and for Khamenehii that wont be as good as it is now.
Most of us, Iranian's think they are all EXACTLY the same shits,and
Nobody wanted to vote this time,they just went to vote a no to Ahmadi, but they didn't know that by doeing that they are choosing the islamic republic again.
and now they are talking about their election as a victory in front of all the world.3 out of 4 people voted against AhmaGHi(STupid).
I have never seen anyone as hated as him by 99.99 people of Iran, for all the shame he has brought them/us.
I really hope that people in Iran give a middle finger to both sides and go further to throw this islamic shit out of Iran forever.
Viva Iran, Fcuk Molla's and Hezbollah.
One big problem with the fivethirtyeight.com counteranalysis is that it assumes the composition of the waves is essentially random with respect to support for each candidate. Which is contrary to the claim that the people arguing for fraud in Iran are making, and which also pretty much makes the result he gets come out automatically.
The people claiming fraud argue that the earliest wave of iranian results was almsot entirely from areas where Ahmedinijad was expected to have strong support and that later waves including areas where Mousavi was beleived to have strong support simply fell in line.
An analogy for the US would be if California, New York and Massachusetts had reported in the first wave, and a later wave consisting of Texas, Utah and Arizona had fallen right in the same line...
Who cares? Let the Iranian's figure out what they want. Not for us in the U.S. to say. If they want freedom, let them fight for it themselves, they'll appreciate it more. We may have to here shortly?
The vote has been fragrantly stolen. The reason that some non Iranians think that Ahmadinejad has actually won is because they compare the elections with others in the region such as Hamas'. The difference is that Iran does not have desperate voters or for the same matter real candidates for suicide bombings. It does have many religious and pious people but the fanatics are not that numerous. If Ahmadinejad had received 20 milion votes yesterday and considering the unprecedented heated pre-election atmosphere, we should have seen a strong victory rally. Something is going to change drastically in the coming weeks in the way Iran is ruled.
There was an interview with Mousavi supporter on NPR, he bitterly accused Ahmadinejad of vote rigging.
Ironically, it was done without any concrete local facts, but in perfect English without a slightest accent! As a representative of Iranian masses, he looked much less than authentic.
On the serious note, even the slightest hint on delegitimization is nothing short of mortally dangerous.
From the Iranian prospective, Ahmadinejad has a strong mandate for his policies, so there is little doubt that he will escalate tensions.
Great post, Prof. Cole.
I would be interested in how you feel this will affect the Israeli's hand in talks with Obama.
Will they now have a new group of supporters who feel that an Iran who lies about an election must surely be lying about their intentions for nuclear material.
I'm no supporter of Ahmadinejad; I've been opposed to him all along.
But I've also never had any doubt that he is far more popular in Iran than his opponents.
The recent TV debates intensified the election fever in the country; but there's no reason to believe that they put any dent in Ahmadinejad's popularity.
It is a simple fact that in the TV debates Ahmadinejad performed far better than his opponents. Watching Mousavi debating him was painful.
The election results are NOT surprising.
* * *
Makhmalbaf states that the Interior Ministry told Mousavi's Campaign that he had won the election. This is utterly absurd!
At the same time, the Interior Ministry was putting out the voting results every few hours. In fact, Ahmadinejad's percentage of votes was originally 69% and declined gradually. How could the Ministry declare Ahmadinejad as far ahead and at the same time tell Mousavi that he won the elections? Makes no sense at all.
These are the words of an Iranian.
The best reason to be sure that this is a huge fraud is :
on this election about 10,000,000 more voters voted.These are the people that never vote because they believe that the system does not care baout their votes. They always boycott the elections because of their frustration with the regime. In the last election there were 25,000,000 voters but this time we had over 35,000,000 voters. Ever asked yourself why so many people voted this time? TO MAKE SURE AHMADI DOESN'T WIN AGAIN. it is completely UNBELIEVABLE that these new voters voted for Ahmadinejad.
The Islamic republic devotees always vote because they believe it's their religious duty, but the boycotters voted this time because Khatami made us believe if the outcome is very strong they can not change the numbers.
This is a clear fraud.
Farsnews, a pro Ahmadinejad news agency posted a news article about Ahmadinejad winning with 24,000,000 votes only 1 hour after the elctions had ended!
To think that the poor voted for Ahmadinejad is also wrong. When he got the presidency the inflation rate was 10.5% it is now 25%. People feel the inflation more than anything.
Don't be so naiive Mr. Evans. This is clearly the biggest fraud in the history of Iran. One that takes the last bit of legitimacy of the Islamic Republic. Even for me who always thought we can reform from within the system. I thought it would take 20 years if we are active in elections, but now I now it will never happen. Goodbye Iran, Hello The No name Islamic Shia Country .
Via Brad Delong, it appears Mousavi has been placed under house arrest.
Hear it from an Iranian, from Tehran NO WAY IN HELL did Ahmadinejad win Tehran. The fact that he might have won the election seems possible, IF the upcome was not this huge and if keeping in mind the rural votes; but the margin of 64% just shows the sloppy rigging work caused by sudden panic. I guess you can argue back and forth about rigged or not, but you can only KNOW if you were standing in line to vote on Friday!
If there has been fraud, applying the "cui bono" test would suggest that anti-Iran hardliners in the US & Israel would much prefer squaring off against a confrontational & unpopular (in the West that is) Ahmadinejad than the more moderate Mousavi, and might therefore attempt to swing things in the former's favor. (Tho it is also true that such an analysis might be too clever by half.)
Regardless of any American bias for the opposition, Iranians themselves are protesting the results, and Mousavi himself issued a statement saying he believed the election was fraudulent. I for one will continue to watch, and see what the Iranian people decide for themselves.
At the same time, I will remember with sadness the fraud of the 2000 election results here in the United States.
The US should not care who wins in Iran and should stay out of internal Iranian politics , it is not good for the US and not good for the moderate in Iran,
the supreme leader is the real leader in Iran and that did not change.
TFT (Terror Free Tomorrow) did a scientific opinion poll about a year ago. It found that most Iranians were happy with the President's performance--this at a time when Western newspapers, relying on reformist interlocutors, claimed that Ahmadinejad's popularity was in decline.
What's happening now is deja vu.
If you put together enough individual, odd coincidences that don't really prove anything, what you get is a fat pile of cherrypicked odd coincidences that still prove exactly the same nothing. There is no number of coincidences that you can selectively add up to make evidence - I say selectively because I notice that no attempt has been made to point out or even look for statistical patterns that resemble randomness rather than rigging. No attempt to tabulate one type against the other - no control. Compiling 'evidence' in this way is a well-known logical fallacy that you can perform successfully on almost any subject regardless of where the truth lies.
Mind you, I do believe that Iran's election was probably rigged and don't really need to be convinced of this, but that's because I can be fairly skeptical about modern election results at the best of times.
Unfortunately, though, I don't find any actual evidence on this page to support my skepticism.
If I were to venture a guess as to what happened, it would be like this:
1) Moussavi's Green Revolution is, like other color revolutions, basically a coopted, US-backed, coup. Whether Moussavi prevails or not, his coup will do nothing good for Iran.
I'm fairly certain that in future years it will come out that this is where some of the black ops money Hersh talked about went.
2) Like Obama, Moussavi's bogus (in my opinion) progressivism has, tragically, manipulated and channeled a very real populist/progressive surge. This surge could really change Iran for the better if it combined its upper middle class populism with lower class populism. This, in a sense, is the challenge that faces the progressive movement all over the world. We must not settle for coopted, charismatics as our leaders.
3) I think Ahmadiinejad won, but not by so much, and that the Revolutionary Guard feared a run-off, because it might give the Israelis an idea window of opportunity to attack. The Revolutionary Guard and the leadership (Khamein and the mullahs) moved in to make sure Ahmadinejad won by a solid margin to prevent a runoff.
4) The resulting unrealistically lopsided victory for Ahmadinejad will either throw the election to Mousavi, or will leave Ahamdinejad badly weakened as a leader; at the same time, it gives various warmongers, led by Netanyahu and the Obama administration, an excuse to consolidate the 'western' aliance against Iran.
Whatever happens from here on out, it looks as though the Dark Side Warriors have scored a big victory. And if that's true, it's a big loser for humanity.
Why would Ahmadinejad win? Well, I think it's because he, like Chavez, combines a seemingly genuine concern for the poor with an proud independence from the US. Neither of these positions is popular in the US and amongst most Iranians in the US, I suspect, but THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY AREN'T POPULAR IN IRAN!!!! In fact, I think the only reason Mousavi had a shot was that Ahmadinejad is such a rock thrower. Mousavi, I think, is quite obviously a coopted opportunist trying to hitch onto the Obama CHANGE bandwagon - which is another reason he is such a darling with the US 'political elite'. But see, what if Iranians don't want to buy a second rate Obama?
I could be wrong and it's quite possible that Mousavi won. I sure can see wanting to get away from Ahmadinejad. He makes Chavez look quite relaxed and soft spoken, not to mention cuddly and safe.
Prof. Cole, this is why your evidence does not add up regarding stealing of election in Iran:
1- On Tabriz (and East ane West Azerbaijan), the day after his debate with Mousavi he went to both Tabriz and Uromiah. His rallies were extremely well attended http://www.mehrnews.com/fa/newsdetail.aspx?NewsID=892584 and http://www.mehrnews.com/fa/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=893057 ) . This argument that Mousavi is from Azerbaijan and thus he has to win there has not worked in Irnian elections in recent years (i.e. other issues dominate)
2- Indeed Ahmadi-Nejad lost in Tehran (the city) according to the Interior Minister (http://www.irna.ir/View/FullStory/?NewsId=545340) .
3- In the debates, Karoubi accepted that he received a check for $300,000 from a corrupt businessman in Iran. That turned off a lot of Iranians. Furthermore, even the former mayor of Tehran, Karbaschi, his strongest supported voted for Mousavi.
4- Mousavi’s claim about not enough ballots (when there was such high rate of participation), and his claim of total victory within one hour of closure of the poles are simply ridiculous.
Furthermore in the election, in every election center there was a representative of Mousavi (along with inspectors from the Gaurdian Council). Furthermore Mousavi had the full support of Rafsanjani, not a friend of Ahmadi-Nejad (and his centers of power such as Azad University, across Iran). Adding all of these, there has not yet been any evidence of stealing of election.
What the “experts” in the West consistently miss in Iran (and Turkey and Palestine and Algeria when they had a free election) that there is a power struggle between those who look to West ( and are usually corrupt and detached from the masses of people) and those who use Islam to (at least supposedly) improve the life for the masses of people, without reliance on the West. This was the story in the election in Iran. Ahmadi-Jejad was simply brilliant to link Mousavi to the corrupt Rafsanjani (who son received a $15 million bribe from Total http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/21/business/worldbusiness/21iht-total.4985434.html ).
Thank you for this valuable insights. The poor score of opponents did look surprising.
The Ministry of Interior said on a press conf yesterday that Moussavi won Tehran.
I expected a strong turnout in rural areas for Ahmadinejad because he controled the inscription process. His nationwide score is too perfect to be true : enough over 50% to secure a 1st round victory, not too high to raise suspicions.
Amir Malik, our most anticipated and respected 23 year old independent journalist from the Muslim world will use a Wordpress blog sheet to write an extensive, easy to understand reaction of the President's outstanding speech at the University of Cairo June 4th 2009.
Amir Malik is far from a political pundit, but he realizes the President’s speech at Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt was the most Politically “Correct” speech in the history of America, "...this was very easy to take from it," he says, "considering there were no bullshit in it...And; therefore, I will engage this project with intellectual integrity, fierce zeal, and most important, notable peace, love and inclusion."
Amir Malik, is a 23 year old homeless freelance writer from the City of New York who is reaching out to the public, because he is aware that we are in very complicated era. "We are living in exponential times...and a new generation is splicing a shape and forming a theme of American evolution none us us are familiar with...a shift, a 'change,' that is going to be challenging for us to accept and appreciate if we are misinformed, lacking proper venues for information...and most of that begins with our desire to want to know" he tells Nikki, a clerk in Starbucks on West 38th Street in Manhattan where he spends most of days utilizing wireless internet connections.
Amir says he is afraid, but not discouraged, "all I need is help."
You can stay informed and or help Amir by becoming a part of reforming American history, voicing your opinion and claiming a right to your dream.
"There is nothing else to do. This is a rescission," says Amir.
For More Information: http://www.amirmalikultd.com
isn't this what happened in mexico more or less. an unbelievable election only ends in dire repercusions.
Isn't it suspicious that the police were ordered to burn the ballot boxes? A tweeter purporting to be from Tehran said this, and that he had ballot boxes, and then he went dark not to much later, because the police were looking for satellites.
The power outages, internet outages, cell phone outages, information outages... all of these are very suggestive of fraud.
While I'll give the international observers that the situation in Florida in 2000 was horrendous, at least the people of America knew that at most we only would have to live for 8 years with the result, and that in the meantime, change to address the issues of the 2000 election WOULD happen. And it did.
Does Iran have this hope?
I seriously doubt it.
Sequence of events:
-analist doesn´t like the outcome of an election
-analist spreads allegations of fraud, without any evidence this actually happened or how it was implemented.
Should we soon see similar claims for elections in LatAm if the pro-USA candidates do not win?.
FC
it says ahmadi took tehran my more than 50%. where are these numbers coming from? any links?
Robert Fisk writes:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-iran-erupts-as-voters-back-the-democrator-1704810.html
An interval here for lunch with a true and faithful friend of the Islamic Republic, a man I have known for many years who has risked his life and been imprisoned for Iran and who has never lied to me. We dined in an all-Iranian-food restaurant, along with his wife. He has often criticised the regime. A man unafraid. But I must repeat what he said. "The election figures are correct, Robert. Whatever you saw in Tehran, in the cities and in thousands of towns outside, they voted overwhelmingly for Ahmadinejad. Tabriz voted 80 per cent for Ahmadinejad. It was he who opened university courses there for the Azeri people to learn and win degrees in Azeri. In Mashad, the second city of Iran, there was a huge majority for Ahmadinejad after the imam of the great mosque attacked Rafsanjani of the Expediency Council who had started to ally himself with Mousavi. They knew what that meant: they had to vote for Ahmadinejad."
My guest and I drank dookh, the cool Iranian drinking yoghurt so popular here. The streets of Tehran were a thousand miles away. "You know why so many poorer women voted for Ahmadinejad? There are three million of them who make carpets in their homes. They had no insurance. When Ahmadinejad realised this, he immediately brought in a law to give them full insurance. Ahmadinejad's supporters were very shrewd. They got the people out in huge numbers to vote – and then presented this into their vote for Ahmadinejad."
It doesn't matter if it was stolen. Ahmadinejad, Moussavi, the corpse of Lenin . . . whomever is president, Khamenei still runs Iran. And whomever's president, Khamenei made the decision to make him President (after all, he could have thrown out election results in Ahmadinejad's favor just as easily as the other way).
So, the question is, are the Iranian people are willing to fight and die in large enough numbers to overthrow Khamenei?
And we'll find out that over the next few days regardless of whether the election results were faked.
There are couple of reasons to believe the votes have been rigged, but I'll give you just one. because you should be Iranian and live here at least for last couple of days to see how people hate Mr. A.N. more and more because of his lies, and like M.H. Moussavi more and more, instead. Don't forget the inflation rate which was 10.7 four years ago and now it is more than 25%!
On 2005 Mr. Rafsanjani scored 10.2 Million votes in presidential election against Mr. A.N. out of
27.8 Million votes.
Now 39 Million is the total votes and you tell me only 2.2 M of all these 11.2 Million people (39 - 27.8 = 11.2) voted for Mr. M.H. Moussavi?!!!
Have you ever thought why there's such an increase in voter turnout? (from 60% in 2005 to 85% in 2009)
You should know that Mr. Rafsanjani is not a very popular person in Iran and he could score 10.2 M out of 27.8M.
On the other hand ex-president Mohammad Khatami who's been the most beloved president in Iran which scored 21.5M on 2001 (77%) presidential election was fully supporting
Mr. Moussavi.
Again I say, you need to be in Iran and watch people for last couple of weeks to understand the obviousness of this coup!
Here are some statistical points,
From the moment that Ministry of Interior started to announce the vote (early morning Tehran time), the proportion of the votes was unchanged over the several hourly updates. It seems that the people who managed the coup d'etat (since most of the reformist leaders are either arrested or under house arrest) had these constraints in their statistics:
1. Ahmadinejad win in first round (having more than %50 of the votes).
2. Ahmadinejad has more than 23 million votes (to be more than Khatami's 2nd election).
3. Having Karroubi's (the more "progressive" reformist canddate) votes extremely low.
I think Khamenei has decided to get rid of the "republic" part of the Islamic Republic after 30 years. They are prepared to pay the internal price, since international community only cares about nuclear issue, they have not assumed sever international consequence.
Nah; Nate's analysis goofed in that he used random sampling. The line plotted for the Iranian election was time-based and there was little to no regional variation.
I wonder if those who suppose to themselves, presumably because they are soo impressed by US media hype about Mousavi and by the views of US Iranians (kind of like taking the temperature of Cuban politics by asking cuban emigres in Miami), or because they think every Iranian who votes also twitters, have considered the possible impact of Dennis Ross' nasty book, extremely nasty book, on Iran, that he released just this past week.
That's quite a remarkable coincidence, isn't it? I mean that Obama's point guy on Iran would release a book on Iran strategy just this week? It almost might seem like it was intended to try to bully the people of Iran into submission. What are the chances that the quite well educated people of Iran did find out about Ross's book? What are the chances that they reacted to his call for the US to block 80% of Iran's exports with something like the kind of warm affection we feel for Osama Bin Laden's election messages? How would we react if someone suggested cutting off our exports? And, again, this wasn't just any someone. It was Obama's main guy.
That's a rhetorical question. If Ross' book was known of in Iran, which surely it was (it's not like it was on some abstruse subject, relations with the US , that the election didn't hinge on), it surely didn't help Moussavi any, and it may have undercut him very badly.
I'll admit to the fact that I cannot prove one way or another right now that the election in Iran was a fraud. However, I think it is very suspicious that the government there put so much effort into controlling information. If there are attempts to quash open sharing of info about an event that is supposed to be as free and open as an election then it is reasonable to say something is very suspicious.
I cannot prove it one way or other but I'd say it is more likely than not something is wrong.
The Mousavi effort was a western run western financed "colored revolution", "velvet revolution". The NED, Freedom House, Soros Open Society, all trying to run a soft coup which is, ipso facto, an election theft. The opposition got the jump on Mousavi and his backers. You can rest assured that there will be no velvet revolution in Iran. Obama will have to fall back on paying Jundullah to blow up mosques
wow. those who believe it was a fair election, do you honestly trust anything, anything that spews from the mouth of ahmadinejad and iran's very own islamic pope, khamenei?
there is no freedom of speech or press in iran. there is no independent faction to verify the results with any confidence. the theocracy controls everything. they are more than capable of orchestrating voting fraud of this magnitude at a moments notice. they control the flow of pretty much all information and news coming out of iran. and who do you think is counting and reporting the vote totals? Ill give you a couple hints... they aren't impartial and they aren't mousavi supporters.
anyone who believes this election was NOT rigged is either ignorant or extremely naive.
Behnam said...
TFT (Terror Free Tomorrow) did a scientific poll...
Behnam, you sound like an Iranian, so I can't believe you'd be dumb enough to think that a group with a name like "Terror Free Tomorrow" is going to conduct an accurate poll of Iranians. I would believe Ahmadinejad winning by 51%, but 62% is definitely bullshit.
To start with I will make it clear that I am not suspicious because Ahmadinijad won. I'm suspicious because he won nearly 2/3 of the vote in the first round. That's never happened in the US. DeGaulle didn't manage it in France. Chirac pulled it off in 2002 when his opponent was the far-right Le Penn, but that was a runoff. Napoleon III pulled it off in 1848. It's never happened in Brazil, Indonesia, or Mexico. Quezon, Magsaysay and Marcos beat that number. Yar'Adua of Nigeria just pulled it off, too. Putin and Medvedev have also broken 65%. At lower levels, and in smaller countries, majorities like 65% are common. But for President in a country the size of Iran...
Granted Rafsanjani and Khatami were elected with numbers in this range. But neither one endorsed Ahmadinejad. Both actualy campaigned for Mousavi. And the current economic climate is particularly bad for their politicians. Their economy isn't great, unemployment's high, his term saw some of their enemies (Saddam) fell but others (the Taliban) are doing quite well.
65% is a Putin-Marcos kind of vote total. Which dos not increase my faith in Iranian democracy.
The linear graph does not prove anything; if anything it actually shows the consistency. There were over 45000 ballot boxes all monitored by the representatives of all candidates.
Mousavi says fully half the polling places were not monitored by his people. It's possible he's lying because he's bad person or something.
But it's also possible the government is lying because they're bad people or something.
So where and when the boxes were allegedly rigged?
You Iranian fellers aren't very creative.
Assuming you prove that the ballot boxes were empty at the start of the day, that only valid ballots were put in them during the day there's still plenty of opportunity for fraud.
The simplest way to commit election fraud is to be fair, and then simply lie about the results. If that's not possible you can always slip ballots in to ballot boxes, "lose" boxes from areas known to support the opposition, replace the real ballot boxes while transporting them to the counting site, etc.
If Mosavi believes that boxes were rigged why he has not complained formally so that the authorities can start an investigation? He surly knows that without a formal complaint the authorities cannot start an investigation!
What's the point?
If his allegations are true the authorities already lied about the election once. If he calls for a formal investigation they'll simply lie again and then get their loyal minions (aka: you) to declare the whole matter resolved.
Nothing like a good old conspiracy theory eh Juan?
This is pretty irresponsible. You have nothing, no proof. Just pure speculation.
It appears to me to be the result of 400 million that Bush managed to wangle from Congress to undermine the Ayatollahs. We were sold other conspiracy theories that these ops involved US special forces inside Iran.
This is also the continuation of a sustained western propaganda campaign continuing against Ahmedinajad.
I have been following the elections via Michael Rubin's irantracker.org on Prof. Cole's recommendation in this blog. Now Rubin and his irantracker.org are no lefties, but a neocon organisation, allied to the American Enterprise Institute. But nevertheless as Rubin himself acknowldges at the website:
"According to final results, Ahmadinejad won 62.3 percent of the vote. Many analysts had predicted a close race or a runoff; IranTracker's poll average had Ahmadinejad in the lead throughout the election campaign."
http://www.irantracker.org/analysis/iranian-presidential-election-news
http://www.irantracker.org/node/284/
Professor Cole,
In Salon, you wrote "These policies ...should be pursued regardless of who holds the weak and ineffectual office of president in Tehran."
What if this is not just a stolen election but a coup and the office of president is no longer weak?
Most of you have drunk the "reformist" Kool Ade it seems. The so-called polls (all from the "west") cannot be trusted for reasons mentioned above. You totally discount that Ahmadinejad has braod support of the poor, and broad support nationally in standing up to the would-be occupiers - USA.
So far this is following the post-election NED/CIA the script used in the Ukraine "orange revolution". But it won't work here. Ahmadinejad won - just as MOST of us thought he WOULD. Why the change of heart now??? Because the obviously slanted "mainstream media", which most of you, quite rightly, usually discount, is crying foul???
Please don't allow yourselves to be PLAYED. Don't allow yourselves to be "useful idiots" of the western propaganda machine!
Anyone who has been following Iran for the past decade could have EASILY predicted an Ahmadinejad land slide. My god people, have you all collectively lost perspective and objectivity???
These events are CLEARLY the work of western agencies in collusion with Mousavi and his cadre of stooges seeking to discredit Ahmadinejad. One can only guess for what pro-Israel/pro-US objectives this smear campaign will be put to use.
What US actions will be "justified" now?
Usually this website lives up to it's name: INFORMED Comment... Today, sadly, you are being taken for a ride.
I think watching these video must be enough for you guys how many of us (iranians) believe this election is an obvious fraud !
Do you think all these people are just paranoid ?!
you need to log in facebook !
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/video/video.php?v=1078790293295&ref=nf
Western Media is trying its best to show that there has been nothing wrong about the election ! Perhaps they need Ahmadinejad to remain so that they will have some subject to talk about and make money with !!
I realized the link I posted isn't working anymore,here's the riht one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us1VNtCYgb0
This might just reflect CIA covert actions. How is one to get an accurate poll in Iran anyway? Perhaps the cities can come up with some method, but it seems almost impossible in the rural areas, and besides how does one know if the polled person is being honest? What I see is a Western media attempt to portray the elections as being close, and then being able to spread the propaganda that the election was stolen, to set the stage, and provide the cover for the continued covert actions by the CIA to destabalize the country.
As a proud Iranian, and on behalf of millions of people who currently have no access to the media to speak up for themselves, and are in one of the worst life threatening situation in Iran, I condemn this large presidential election fraud and illegal interference with the process of Iranian votes by Iran's Ahmadinejad who came to power 4 years ago as a result of a similar election fraud. I condemn the support of his fraud by one of the most dictators in the word Ali Khmenee (Iran’s non elected ultimate leader).
I am appealing to the world leaders and international human rights communities to refuse recognition of June 12, 2009 Iranian Presidential Election Results.
Yaah! let us recommend to Iran, electronic voting machines, built by USA Texass.
Jaun Cole is a MI5-6 agent. His cover is blown. Americans know that the 2004 2008 elections were cooked--What did they do--pissall :^(
Stop lying amd mind your ownaffairs-goofballs !
@Carlos Sardiña Galache:
"I think is enourmously irresponsible to claim that the elections were rigged without clear and strong evidence."
To the contrary: I think is enourmously irresponsible to claim that the elections were NOT rigged without clear and strong evidence - and that should be the policy for everything calling itself "democracy" including so called western democracies..
prof. Cole:
no facts, not even one. Just guessing or I should say propaganda.
Shame on you.
By the way who gave you a phony title prof.?
For those who are questioning why communications and so forth were shut down: now I am no supporter of election fraud, but I am a supporter of security and not having my car or business set on fire by rioting youth. The so-called reformist movement in Iran has a track record of belligerence and violent reaction to not getting its way.
I fail to see how Facebook is necessary for casting a ballot and how shutting it down would affect the vote count. I do see why shutting it down would help the matter of civil security.
Following on the justifiable Ohio analogy, would it have been acceptable for the people of Ohio to run amok in the streets of Columbus, smashing and burning things, beating and threatening innocents people in protest of election fraud? We tend to be overly entranced by the so-called reformists in Iran, and for all the wrong reasons.
Important note: many intuitively act like, either one side really won and got cheated, or the other side really won. Well, it could be a mixture of both. Maybe Ahmadinejad really won, but cheated too so his real margin of victory is less. Things like that happen, and false dichotomies confuse discussions.
Re "Tosk," above:
The NAF/Terror Free Tomorrow report suggests that Tosks's conclusions are far-fetched:
>>> At the stage of the campaign for President when our poll was taken, 34 percent of Iranians surveyed said they will vote for incumbent President Ahmadinejad. Mr. Ahmadinejad’s closest rival, Mir Hussein Moussavi, was the choice of 14 percent, with 27 percent stating that they still do not know who they will vote for. President Ahmadinejad’s other rivals, Mehdi Karroubi and Mohsen Rezai, were the choice of 2 percent and 1 percent, respectively.
A close examination of our survey results reveals that the race may actually be closer than a first look at the numbers would indicate. More than 60 percent of those who state they don’t know who they will vote for in the Presidential elections reflect individuals who favor political reform and change in the current system. [...] The current mood indicates that none of the candidates will likely pass the 50 percent threshold needed to automatically win; meaning that a second round runoff between the two highest finishers, as things stand, Mr. Ahmadinejad and Mr. Moussavi, is likely.<<<
For Ahmedinejad to have won more than 61% means that he would have won ALL (100%) of the unsure votes, plus more. That stretches credulity. Furthermore, the report suggests that more than 60% of the undecideds favored change. Selectively choosing A's and M's certain votes and concluding that these support 2.4:1 ratio for the final election is cherry-picking data at its worst.
http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/upimagestft/TFT%20Iran%20Survey%20Report%200609.pdf
oh my god. all you westerners acting all surprised and shocked, and all you people who feel the need now to exercise some critical thinking, where were you when bush stole the election? where were you when bush denied the formation of 911 commission? where were you when us and uk invaded iraq, huh? hypocrites, i say!
Shame on the handful of conspiracy theorists here posting that Ukraine's Orange Revolution was orchestrated by the U.S. They are apologists for President Vladimir Putin, who was the only person doing any orchestrating of elections in Ukraine.
Those of us who criticize neo-conservatives make the point that the U.S. has no business imposing democracy by force, because the idea of democracy has appeal *on its own*. That is exactly what happened in Ukraine.
For shame.
Re claim that stated results of Lebanon's recent elections also did not reflect actual margins. A comment in Washington Monthly, at http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_06/018608.php#1518709, gives the following explanation:
The recent Lebanon election was not stolen. All Lebanese elections are rigged beforehand based on census statistics from 60 years ago which give the Christians disproportionate seats in the assembly. Everyone, including Hezbollah, has agreed to the continuation of this system (although it hurts the Shi'ites the most), so the pro-westerners won the pre-rigged election fair and square, even though the Hezbollah/Amal/Free Patriotic Movement coalition got more votes.
There's tons of systems where one side can win without getting the majority of the votes - starting with the United States, where, even if it didn't really happen in 2000, easily could have. [REM Electoral College] In Britain, governments took power after the 1951 and February 1974 elections which had received fewer votes than their opponents, and, in general, governments win easy majorities despite rarely winning more than 40% of the overall vote. Election systems are set up differently, and sometimes badly, but that doesn't make an election stolen.
I've not seen any indications that the Lebanese elections were actually fraudulent, only that the conditions in which they were conducted allowed one group to win even though the other group got more votes.
Salam,
Ahmedinejad lived in Tabriz for 8 years and speaks fluent Turkish. He was also once leader of a province there
I am an Iranian economist with a PhD. I can tell with 100% certainty that the election results are fabricated. You don't need data if you were watching the process closely. First of all the turn out was really high exactly because people wanted A-Nejad out! So it was very obvious for observers that he wont be elected. His main opponent is also a former socialist, and has tremendous support from poor and rural areas. A-Nejad does not get his vote from poor, but from government workers and militia, whose salary and number jumped right before election. Besides, the way the results were announced (starting even before the election was over) , the suspicious and even funny looking numbers which seen to be products of a linear equation, and the sheer volume of irregularities (including banning the opposition observers from watching the counting process in most booths), all implies entirely fabricated numbers. Unofficial but widespread news that the leader Khamenei told the big players that he can not take the humiliation of a defeated ally at the end of his life (he is 80 years old) and ordered the numbers.
I'm not surprised at all that fraud might have taken place. The thing that really strikes me in this article is Cole's contention that Obama is right to try to "engage" Iran. Why? What is the realistic benefit of trying to reach out to a tyrannical, terrorist-sponsoring country? Aren't we just enabling them to continue down a dangerous path? Our allies seem to think so.
I’m confused there was 46.2 million eligible voters according to the information ministry (12/06/09) so if you take votes for the candidates even at 85% of the count there appears to have been 53+ million people voted, now if I then account for the further 15% which seem to have vanished into thin air this gives a total off 63+ million votes cast now that means 17 million dead people must have went to vote this is the same as Zimbabwe has been for the last three elections the information ministry should hang their head in shame for poor mathematics, which I guess in the new revolution they be one of the first to HANG.
It's very much like Venezuela. If you hang with the middle-class folks, which I tend to do, as they're more like me, you would think Chavez is hated in the extreme.
But when you talk to the poor, you find out very differently. Chavez' opponents are the hated ones.
And there are a lot more poor than middle-class or rich.
I don't know what happened in Iran's election, but it makes sense that poor Iranians - which is most of them - would vote for Ahmadinjad 90%.
The argument of several posters, that the high inflation has turned voters off to the gov't, is not valid. Inflation is not a top concern for poor people, as they tend not to have any disposable income anyway.
To those making reference to the 2000 US election - the difference here is that the 2000 election ballots where highly scrutinized, at the time and since, and the problem was not with transparancey and provenance but the mechanics of vote counting. Does anyone think there will be any such open scrutiny of the ballots in Iran?
If Ahmednijad had stood unopposed and had won, he would still be accused of fraud by certain quarters.
It was meant to be a black revolution much on the line of cedar, orange...
It just did not happen.
Just live with it. Democracy as long as our guy wins else its stolen or fraud.
It seems that George W. Bush and Ahmadinejad remain psychic dopplegangers, tied at the hip but with a 5-year delay for the Iranian. They always needed each other to create a state of war and wrap themselves in their respective flags.
Given Ahmadinejad's lack of constitutional authority, and his youth, and his past as an IRG officer, it always seemed to me that his end game would be to get the war that he and Bush and Netanyahu want so badly. Then he would denounce the elderly clerics as being the wrong kind of leadership in wartime, then carry out an internal coup with his IRG buddies against Khameini. In a sense, he needed his own 9/11 to do what the neocons did to America, and didn't get it.
So maybe he actually got more votes than the other guy, or maybe he didn't, and maybe he committed fraud sloppier than Ohio 2004. Will the American corporate empire now decree that he stole an election, thus we can bomb him, or will they decree that the Iranian people are monsters for voting for him, so we must bomb all of them?
And with the global corporate economy (including Iran, which has its own tycoons allied to its rulers) failing more and more people, what is to be the fate of the armies of the poor? Based on what I've seen at this thread, the pro-American Iranians are no more friends of the poor than the anti-Castro Cubans or the anti-Ho Vietnamese. Yet ironically if Ahmadinejad is popular, it's with poor rural voters who are in ways analogous to Bush's Christian redneck army - except that they see capitalism as the enemy of God instead of the instrument of God. America is the only country where the downwardly mobile rank & file are ultra-capitalist freaks, because they think we're not exploiting and cheating and bombing their dark-skinned counterparts in the outside world enough to deliver the promise of free enterprise to fuel their giant pickup trucks.
I miss class revolution, which was so much more logical than this tribal madness, our group of rednecks allied with evil corporations to enslave another group of rednecks allied with mullahs. I wish the poor everywhere in the 3rd world would just start marching, overrunning all the leaders we sponsor, all the leaders who talk anti-American but support economic inequality, all the shiekhs and generals, and all the corporate outposts that buy up political parties and make elections a universal joke. For it is clear that the world's elites will sacrifice billions of the disunited poor like ballast from a sinking ship.
Nice analysis, Juan. This place needs a new Revolution to rid itself of the corrupt Islamic dictatorship, including the whole Islamic Council, murderous bastards all. With the Revolutionary Guards, and street thug enforcers, there's no way to do that without bloodshed. The poor people thought they were getting some moral democracy when they overthrew the Shah, instead they got Civil War, mass murder, and the most brutal religious dictatorship outside of the Taliban. And the tens of millions of kids bred to lead the Islamic Revolution across the world are their masters' greatest threat.
Now they have the material for a Bomb, and as I predicted, will have that within a year. Bad news for everyone, esp. Israel, which after their brutal Gaza invasion, may see that nuclear fire bloom there. If Iran never tests their weapons, there is no signature to identify.
Michael Hammerschlag
http://hammernews.com
My wife voted for Mousavi. I chose to exercise my right not to vote - which did not sit well with my wife at all. After the election she said I did the right thing. It may be interesting to jot down some thoughts pervasive among Iranians and compare them to likely opinions from Ahmadinejad versus Mousavi
1) Iran has an absolute right to Nuclear Energy - but only to be used for peaceful purposes (Agreed to by AhmadiNejad and Mousavi).
2) The taking of the U.S. embassy in 1978 was the unfortunate payback for overthrowing Mossadegh by CIA operatives in 1953 (AN & M).
3) Hitler actually did order the killing of an inordinate amount of Jews along with other percieved enemies such as Poles, and Russians during WWII (M).
4) Israel practices a policy of apartheid against Palestinians - reminiscent of South Africa(AN & M).
5) The U.S. committed war crimes in Iraq for which Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al. should be held responsible (AN & M).
6) Obama's term may present an opportunity for a thawing in relations with Iran (M).
7) If a thaw was in the cards it would have happened during Clinton/Khatami (AN).
8) Iran is essentially an economic mess with rampant unemployment, crumbling infrastructure, and archaic institutions (M).
9) The lower echelon of society have been well-served by the revolution - especially in terms of education (AN & M).
10) Whoever won the election, there is only one supreme leader in Iran (AN & M).
Instead of the interventionist/complaintive/suspicious statements from Mr. Cole and others (demonstrating the unfortunate joining at the hip of the Left and Right regarding US foreign policy) about the Iranian election it would more productive for future relations if Western talking heads got off their high horse and congratulated the winner.
Noses out and hands off other countries will get better results.
werkshop, you suggest that Ross's book had any effect on the election - hmmm. Yes, no doubt it was translated immediately and distributed widely amongst the "independents". Big fan of conspiracy theories and implausible coincidences, are we? To
The ultimate power is on hand of Khameneie, to him does not matter who got elected. Why Khamenei has to go through fraud and rig? does not make any sences. I called Iran and talked to several of my own family, I was hoping that Mossavi have gotten elected and my family has voted for him, but the reality was different. I found out that Ahmadinejat’s supporter during the pre election stay at home they did not come to the street. These young kids that you saw on the TV and supporting the Mossavi they did not have any thing else to do, they were looking for some excitement similar to 30 years a go when we kick the shah out of Iran. However, I asked my family why they voted for Ahmadi-nejat. They said he is the reformer one. They said vote for Mossavi was like voting for the Rafsanjani (the old government), which both run the same cropped government. They believe Ahmadi-nejat is for the reform not Mossavi. Becically they did not like Rafsanjani. It seems like the previous election between Ahmadi-nejat and Rafsanjani. It seems that the 62% is like the last runoff results, noting surprise about it. They did not call that one was a fraud. This is the way election is in Iran. The ultimate power is in hand of the Khameneie. 12 years ago Khatami got elected that was surprise to every one he was the reformer. There was not any different between Mossavi and Rafsanjani, so therefore, they cast their vote for Ahmadi-nejat. This is my analysis.
The ultimate power is on hand of Khameneie, to him does not matter who got elected. Why Khamenei has to go through fraud and rig? does not make any sences. I called Iran and talked to several of my own family, I was hoping that Mossavi have gotten elected and my family has voted for him, but the reality was different. I found out that Ahmadinejat’s supporter during the pre election stay at home they did not come to the street. These young kids that you saw on the TV and supporting the Mossavi they did not have any thing else to do, they were looking for some excitement similar to 30 years a go when we kick the shah out of Iran. However, I asked my family why they voted for Ahmadi-nejat. They said he is the reformer one. They said vote for Mossavi was like voting for the Rafsanjani (the old government), which both run the same cropped government. They believe Ahmadi-nejat is for the reform not Mossavi. Becically they did not like Rafsanjani. It seems like the previous election between Ahmadi-nejat and Rafsanjani. It seems that the 62% is like the last runoff results, noting surprise about it. They did not call that one was a fraud. This is the way election is in Iran. The ultimate power is in hand of the Khameneie. 12 years ago Khatami got elected that was surprise to every one he was the reformer. There was not any different between Mossavi and Rafsanjani, so therefore, they cast their vote for Ahmadi-nejat. This is my analysis.
Hello everybody:
Nice post from Professor Cole. I work following Middle East affairs. I also thought that Ahmadinejad would win, but I now think that maybe the Revolutionary Guard got scared before the vote and they decided to rig it. There´s no way than you can count 35 million votes MANUALLY in just a few hours. Everyone was surprised at this. And there are other factors, not only the reasons by Professor Cole. There are political reasons for this fraud, so Khamenei took the risk, not like some comments here say. Ahmadinejad could have won, but they decided to do a power grab directed towards their domestic rivals.
Because, you see, it´s not the same politically to win with 52 % in the first round, or to win in the second round, than this landslide victory. This is supposed to give more political capital and more legitimacy to the actual President, so he can make more radical changes in domestic policies (remember, big foreign policy issues are managed by Khamenei, not Moussavi, Ahmadinejad or Khatami. The can set the tone, but not the strategic choices). Ahmadinejad is popular, but he faces tough competition inside Iran to his policies, and he wants to break them with this supposed “landslide popular support”.
When I talk about resistance, powerful resistance to Ahmadinejad, I´m not talking about Moussavi or Khatami. They may be popular (mainly Khatami), but they don´t have political power. I´m talking about Rafsanjani, Larijani, Ghalibaf, Nateq Nouri, Rowhani. Even the main power of Rezaei is not his popular appeal, but his political connections. If you know Iran, you know who these people are. And they are not pro-Ahmadinejad.
Take this example: Why did Teheran become such a circus during the campaign ? Because Mayor Ghalibaf is no friend of Ahmadinejad, and he decided to let the strings loose. The Islamic Consultative Assembly (Legislative Power), headed by Lariyani, has blocked a lot of Ahmadinejad laws, even his budget. They removed Ali Kordan, the former Interior Minister. And let´s not talk about Rafsanjani. He may be corrupt, but he´s very powerful indeed. Just look at his letter to Supreme Leader Khamei. He talked like an equal, not a subordinate.
So, why the coup ? Because now Ahmadinejad can go to the Islamic Assembly and tell Lariyani: “Approve this law, because look at what the Leader let me do!! Look at all my support, you can´t resist me!” The Iranian political class right now is divided. In one side, there´s the second generation of those who did the Islamic Revolution. The Revolutionary Guards. They were young when Khomeini. Now, they are headed by Ahmadinejad and they have “hard power”. They want to take power away from the old clique of clerics, like Rafsanjani, that didn´t die in the trenches. They allied themselves with Khamenei, who needs their support. Remember that he´s not the most learned cleric in Iran, so he has enemies in the clerical stablishment. He wasn´t even an Ayatollah when he was chosen as Supreme Leader. That was a political decision. The Supreme Leader was supposed to be Ayatollah Montazeri, but he fought with Khomeini. This Khamenei – Revolutionary Guards alliance has the backing of certain powerful hard line clerics, like Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi (who I read that issued a fatwa to allow vote-rigging before the vote, I don´t know if it´s true) and Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati, Hed of the Guardian Council.
The other alliance in Iran is one between the Reformist (Khatami, Karroubi) with “Pragmatic Conservatives” (Rafsanjani, Rowhani) and other conservatives figures (Nateq Nouri, for example). Some pragmatic conservatives that didn´t back Ahmadinejad: Lariyani, Ghalibaf, although they don´t oppose him directly. Moussavi is not a reformist. He´s one from the Old Guard who´s fighting the New Guard (Ahmadinejad and the Guards) because he thinks they will destroy the country and the Islamic Revolution.
Why do I think there was fraud ? Because of some of the issues brought up by Professor Cole, and others. The Interior Ministry is headed by one of the closest allies of Ahmadinejad, Mr. Sadeqh, he was even his campaign manager in 2005. This is not legitimate, my friends. And the Guardian Council, which is supposed to monitor the election, is headed by Ayatollah Jannati, another close ally of the President (I read he even is his father in law, but I´m not sure). Of the 40.000 or so election centers, there were almost 14.000 “mobile” elections centers, that were suppose to let people in far away villages vote. But also, they cpuld not be properly monitored, you see?
One of the things I think that happened is this: I read Ayatollah Khamenei telling people to “vote early”. And Moussavi said that many election centers ran out of ballot papers. I think that maybe Ahmadinejad sent his people to vote early, and with the massive turnout, when they ran out of ballot papers, it´s possible that they only sent ballot papers to villages or places where they knew Ahmadinejad was strong, and not to the Azeris provinces, for example. I´t a easy way to commit fraud. They can say later: “Yes, we printed more ballot papers”…But they don´t say where.
This seems like a coup from the Revolutionary Guards. For example, media coverage. Try to get into IRNA or Press TV and find critics. Maybe in Press Tv you would find a small coverage, but not in IRNA or IRIB. Remember than in Iran there are only public TV stations. If you block foreign media, Internet and satellite TV, then nobody knows what happens. This is where Facebook is important. It´s a very easy way to spread news or organize people. Not as an statistics source, as one silly comment silly.
In a normal, clean election, you would have a recount. Besides (and this is a question) where´s Khatami? Where´s Karroubi ? Where´s Rafsanjani? Where´s Moussavi ? Are they in prison ? I read that Moussavi is under house arrest. This is a way to leave the protester leaderless until they get tired….
PD: There´s some people saying that Hezbollah got more votes than 14 March and they lost. It´s true. It´s has to do with Lebanon complex sectarian system, from the Taif Accords. Something like the electoral colleges in the US, where Gore got more popular vote but he lost with Bush. In Lebanon, the 50% of al MPs must be Christian, even though Muslims , and mainly Shiite Muslims, make the most pare of the population. So, Hezbollah and Amal can have a lot of votes, but they only have a limited number of Shiites MPs than can be sent to Parliament. It´s more appropriate to say that General Michel Aoun, Christian Ally of Hebollah, lost the election. Because Hezbollah only nominated 11 MPs, and they all won….
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/06/2009613181040285185.html
Ahmadinejad is a whack job throw back from the hostage situation that ended at the beginning of the Regan era. This idiot will run that country into the ground much like all the other extreemists there. The sad part is it sounds like most of his “subjects” do not agree with him fundamentally or philosophically. But in keeping pace with his militant brethren, he appears to not really give a damn about anything other than his own completely radical and out of date ideals and philosophies. Sooner or later, there will be a massive revolt and they’ll hang his sorry ass from a tree or cut his ass to bits. Either way is fine with me.
As one piece of evidence, you may also refer to the spatially- and temporally-linear results provided by the Interior Ministry. If you look at the spatial distribution of the votes, you will see it follows a linear pattern, i.e., the number of Ahmadinejad's votes in every area is a constant times the number of votes won by Mousavi plus a constant shift! Very believable!
Pretty ridiculous that so many people are buying the well-funded sob story of the sons of the Persian aristocracy. But let's concede the complaint for the sake of argument.
Even if we pretend the election results don't represent the actual votes of Iranians, so what? Lots of elections suffer the same flaw. Why is this election such an object of interest for the west? Could it be that there are special rules when the west's favoured candidate gets cheated? Why are those rules not universal?
IT'S NONE OF THE WEST'S BUSINESS TO SAY HOW THE ELECTION OUGHT TO HAVE TURNED OUT, OR WHETHER THE PROCESS WAS FAIR.
The world allows the west to run its shambolic electoral without purporting to have an opinion about how it "ought" to turn out. Return the favour. STFU.
AHMADINEJAD RULES! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!
As "anonymous" stated above at 5:57am
"Have you all drunk the reformist Kool Ade"?
I see a lot of accusations and no proof.
I see a lot of links to War Party Mouthpiece websites and absurd links to "Facebook" and "Twitter". Is that all you got to support your theories???
Ahmadinejad won as he was EXPECTED to. There is nothing surprising about that. Not a damn thing.
This whole matter REEKS of NED/CIA-type stage management. The question you should be asking is not whether Ahmadinejad won but how did western intelligence FUND Mousavi and will the perpetrators in this obvious act of sabotage - in fact war - be brought to justice?.
Like he said: get over it.
Much as an Iranian I am against the current regime who have killed people in my family, I am more against the interference of the West which is the root of all the troubles in the first place.
And thus, whilst this actually may have been a fraud, I can have absolutely no trust in what the West is trying to stir up. The same propoganda which deprived us of our strong democracy in the 50s, the same propoganda that put the Shah in place, the same propoganda that helped get rid of the Shah is quite possibly once again rearing its ugly head against the madman Ahmadinejad just because we don't like him in the West. So I don't trust it for a second.
It's a shame that it's coming from Western sources who all have a massive interest in causing unrest (yet again) in Iran, because it may actually be true but the likes of me will not trust it.
There is NOT A SINGLE, FACTUAL, PIECE OF EVIDENCE, that this election was rigged. I am very disappointed to see an academic like prof. Cole use hearsay or wishful thinking to "prove" his point. You can simply not rig 12 millions votes of difference. Get over it !
"I'm suspicious because he won nearly 2/3 of the vote in the first round. That's never happened in the US. DeGaulle didn't manage it in France"
What utter crap. c.f. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/americas/04/vote_usa/map/html/ (switch to the "Past elections" tab)
1956: Eisenhower, 57.8% of popular vote
1964: LBJ, 61.3% of popular vote
1972: Nixon, 61.7% of popular vote
It not only happens, it happens regularly.
Oh yeah, and
1984: Reagan, 59% of popular vote
Click on this link and join in this exciting game. http://yahoda.mybrute.com
Ahmadinejad opened an Azeri-lanaugage school in Azerbaijan, thus earning him support there. Mousavi's ethnic (non-) identification as an Azeri is really besides the point
Regarding the pre-election poll results from Terror Free Tomorrow foundation that Tosk posted, I recommend looking at the following article which addresses that organization's data:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenumbers/2009/06/irans-election-the-odds-of-fraud.html
STOP, PLEASE EVERYBODY STOP FOR A SECOND...
My fellow Iranians, Did you forget those days that Mousavi was in power?? Did you forget what he and his friends did to Iran with all the corrupt friends he had and has??
I am not a Ahmadinejad supporter, but I do remember Mousavi and his friends when they were in power. All of you nice people that going to the streets and protesting, if you were in Mousavi's time back then, all of you would be beaten and put in jail a lot worse than now!!!
The biggest Mousavi's supporter is Hashemi Rafsanjani and his sons. Did you forget how much money he and his sons have stolen?? How much land they have stolen or bought very very cheap? Do you remember the news about 15 years ago that one of Hashemi Rafsanjani's sons had a account in one of the Swiss banks for more that $800,000 million? Where did he get that money?
PEOPLE DO NOT CHANGE, NEVER EVER AND MOUSAVI WON'T CHANGE EITHER... WHY YOU THINK MOUSAVI WILL BE DIFFERENT THAN HE WAS 20 YEARS AGO??
I AM NOT SUPPORTING AHMADINEJAD, but if Mousavi would be elected, he would stop or slow down the nuclear power (because he listens to the west only) and he would bring all his corrupt friends that he had and has from long time ago.
He will sign shamful agreements and treaties with other countries because "west" pays him to do that. Mousavi would sell oil cheap and buy all the junk and trash from other countries and pay them big money just to satisfy west.
I am not Ahmadinejad's supporter, but I do not trust Mousavi either Mousavi is a lot worse. Ask your older brothers and sisters, they remember him... Nuclear power would stop or slow down dramatically on his watch...
1. So Ahmadinejad won Tabriz.... and? That doesn't prove anything. Unless you have evidence that the people of Tabriz backed Mousavi far more than Ahamdinejad, then I don't see how this is a factor. You're essentially arrogantly positing that you KNOW how people in Tabriz should have voted (or did). Which, unless you have substantive evidence, comes across as quite as unprofessional for a scholar such as yourself.
2. Ahmadinejad didn't win the city of Tehran. He won the province. Which isn't all that far fetched. So this claim is essentially false and meaningless.
3. How is this point evidence of fraud? From everything I've read, Karoubi was a non-issue and was never seen as a serious contender, therefor, is it that hard to believe that people in Luristan perhaps understood this and decided to throw their lot behind a candidate they felt had a chance of winning? I'm not stating that's what actually happening, it's simply a hypothesis. However, I would like to know how you know with such certainy that Karoubi should have done well in Luristan.
4. And how much weight do you put on these pre-election polls? I just saw you dismiss the TFT poll as if it holds no weight, so why are you even trying to throw out pre-election Iranian polls that are entirely unscientific? Maybe Rezaie wasn't as popular as you presumed. Ever thought of that?
5. Past elections aren't always a good gauge for current trends. They can sometimes provide insight into current political situations, but I would hesitate to put too much weight on previous elections. Facts change, peoples attitudes and political affilations change, etc. Who's to say the Iranian political landscape couldn't have changed enough for Ahmadinejad to pull off a sizable victory.
6. I never saw anything that claimed the Electoral Commission CERTIFIED the results, I only saw articles showing they RELEASED the results. Two quite different things. I could be wrong, and if someone wishes to show me I am, please do. However, I don't see where this argument holds much weight either way. Mousavi jumped the gun and delcared himself the "victor" long before the results were even released, much less ceritified. And he claims that the Interior Ministry called him TELLING him he was the victor and that he should prepare for a victory speech, which kind of destroys his point that the results were released too quickly.
Aren't you still the whaling Leftist of academia who belongs in a Gulag to free a free society of your Marxist/Fascist/Obama tendencies?
Indeed, you are!
To an Anonymous who quotes Robert Fisk (that as if Tabriz voted 80 per cent for Ahmadinejad 'cause he "opened university courses there for the Azeri people to learn and win degrees in Azeri"):
What a nonsense! Did you both eryourself to check WHEN A-jad issued this decision? Just a week or so before the elections and by doing so he (i) used his discretionary powers of an incumbent president and (ii) made a populistic step. Azerbaijanis understand this and that it was him who continued throughout his office refusing any single school or university which would educate in Azerbaijani! The one you are talking about is just about the "language courses" and not a full scale study in native language of 30 mln Azerbaijani Turks. Azeris also remember how many of them were killed in Tabriz and other Azerbaijan cities during rallies to claim education in Azerbaijani or to remember national heroes such as Babek, Sattarkhan etc. So, how would a normal man who is familiar at least with these key facts would conclude that Azerbaijan Turks would vote for A-jad? Please try to be honest...
“We have 50,000 observers in these elections,” Mehdi Rafsanjani said. “If anyone is barred from a ballot box, we will find out.”So this dont hold when man behind Mousavi is saying that.
Many are saying that in previous election reformists didnt vote.Is there was counter poll which said that.
Watch http://www.euronews.net/2009/06/14/ahmadinejad-rally-counters-opposition-protests/
If you have seen in above vid that Nejad has organise even bigger rallies.Opposition just dont know to accept defeat like mature democracy & are having hissy fits.in India such protestors security cant be guaranteed.They will get their bones fracture & lathi charged(beaten severly by sticks)& fire by rubber bullets,&
jailed.
The people are allowed to protest but vandalism is not a peaceful protest, & yet media is saying that basji beat protestors when it is other way around.
Nejad had earlier won from Tehran.
This time around he has won from Tehran as a province not in in Tehran city whole.52%to46% in province which comprise suburbs.43.3%to51.8
UK had 38% internet connection I think & you all think some elitists having it in Iran can represent it.
Lastly read this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/13/iranian-election?commentpage=1
In Hashemi who also supports Mousavi & Khatami both there were only one newspaper had written against him which were stopped or ban.In Nejad words of "Mr. Mousavi, you have been Prime Minister for eight years, and there was one newspaper to criticize you, only one newspaper. And once or twice a week they criticize you economically. And the statistics that I have here affirm all of those criticisms. I will talk about them now. What atmosphere did you create at that time? You yourself, how many times did you talk against that newspaper? I have all your lectures against that newspaper. You should remember all this. This is recorded. You said that you are in the line of the enemy, you are acting against the revolution, you said that you are hurting or harming the county. Whereas the reports published in that newspaper [were] about your own budget plan, and it was in the Parliament’s Agricultural Commission. And that person, one of those people had written a critique of that. You pressure, and they stopped writing those reports and articles. If you look at all these, four years, these are the titles of the insults against me and my government, all the accusations and insults. I tolerated all of these. In your addresses you called me a dictator. Is this dictatorship?
In economically Nejad had been criticised but During Mr. Hashemi’s government, the inflation rate was 49.5%.
Another rumour mongering by some anonymous.In Tabriz he had won by 49.6
% to 47.8% (not 80%) which is very close.
Last but not least everyone is biased, every comment of mine might be biased but they are logical & rational.If emotion dont effect us then we are not humans.
"Don Bistrow said...
Aren't you still the whaling Leftist ... "
What a Moby Dick.
People, you´re forgetting certain important facts. I always thought that Ahmadinejad would win, but I don´t know if he did it with such a large margin. Politically, that large margin allows him to pursue with a lot more freedom certain policies at home that maybe he couldn´t if he won in the second round or with fewer votes.
For example, he can beat opposition in the Parliament led by Mr. Lariyani, or have the upper hand in his war against the powerful Ayatollah Rafsanjani and other important clerics. Maybe he thought that because he won, It wouldn´t matter to rig some votes and do it with a larger margin.
There are important facts that most people are overlooking. He can indeed win freely in Tabriz, but:
1) The quickness of the vote counting is not normal. I´m from Venezuela, where we have one of the best electoral systems in the world. It´s automatic, you vote in an electronic machine connected to the Election Center in Caracas. And we have only 16 million people registered to vote. Nevertheless, we must wait for hours before we get accurate results. There´s no way you can count 35 million valid votes manually in just a few hours, like they did in Iran.
2) Why didn´t they wait the 3 days to get the results to the Leader, and instead they validated them at once ?
3)Then, there are some specific complaints. They raised the number of "mobile" elections centers from 2000 or so to more than 14.000. You can´t really monitor what goes on in this mobile centers.
4) Then, remember the issue of credibility. The Interior Ministry is headed by Sadeq Mahsouli, a close ally of Ahmadinejad and the one who ran his campaign in 2005. The Guardian Council is headed by Ayatollah Jannati, an important backer of Ahmadinejad (I have even read that Jannati is his father in law, I need someone please to confirm this). I don´t think that´s very reassuring...
5) I think our discussions are polarized. I mean, is like that if you reject western imperialism, you must be with Mahmoud and back the elections results. I´m againts western imperialism. Very much. Ahmadinejad indeed has been satanized by the international community, he´s not the devil himself, but Moussavi IS NOT a NED backed insurgent neither. He´s backed by Khatami, who has wide popular and international appeal, a person who I think has certain credibility, even though he failed to confront the clerics before. Why did he choose to do it now ? Why did Moussavi, who IS NOT a reformist or westernized figure, choose to come back to politics right now and choose to risk his credibility and well being in this manner ? Why would Rafsanjani play such hardball rigth now (beside the issue of his economic privileges..He can protect those better if he stayed away from confrontation..) ? The same with Nateq Nouri. Even Lariyani is a critic of the Interior Ministry work in this election. Or Rowhani. These people come from different political backgrounds and ideologic positions. I need a logical explanation of why are they doing this in this opportunity. It´s not logic to think that they became crazy and decided to begin this situation. They are not western backed thugs. What happened ? Something must be motivating them...Even Khamenei backed down and asked for the election to be examined by the Jannati dominated Guardian Council. I think something weird happened indeed.....
6) Why all the messing around with communications (Internet, cell phones, newspapers, etc.) BEFORE and AFTER the vote ? I remember of one specific kind of situations when it´s normal to disrupt communications. They are called coups.
Thank you for your time....
On the 14th Ken Ballen and Patrick Doherty, two level headed guys, writing in the Washington Post opined that the election results are about right. Three weeks ago they made an extensive, professional, public opinion survey, by phone from a neighboring country, funded by the Rockefeller Foundation, and found Ahmadinejad leading by more than a 2 to 1 margin.
The diversity of views here suggests two things to me:
1. Iran would have done well and would do well to set up vote-counting arrangements in such a way that fraud of the kind alleged could not occur. This is not so difficult.
2. There is no shame in accepting international oversight of elections and election procedures. It might be good if every country which uses elections did so. This could reduce bad practice.
In Ancient Athens, holders of public office were chosen by lot (apart from generals, who were elected by vote). This remains the most radical form of democracy ever invented, since it assumes that any average citizen can be trusted to do the best job within his power.
Tim Moore
Juan, congratulations on being one of the few in the Western media that at least try to substantiate the claim of fraud, rather than offering a thinly-veiled hatred of Ahmadinajad in place of logic. It's really funny to me seeing the same people that wanted to bomb Iran flat suddenly care about the people's rights there.
Although the facts you bring up count as anomalies - which is not necessarily the same thing as fraud, i'm not here to talk about them (nor about the consistency of polls and election results that would count as evidence of the contrary).
Instead, what is your view of the surprising result obtained in the recent Lebanon elections, given that they genuinely do represent a surprising result, and which have been "signed off" on quickly, and it seems, without any proper review in the media of the West? And what is the possibility there's been the same tampering in both elections?
Second, what is your opinion of how the media in the west have taken on the role of encouraging trouble in Iran, particularly given their dead silence when Lebanon's election went in their favour?
Besides the obvious 'western' media bias against the ruling party in Iran,many people in 'western'countries are not getting an accurate portrayal of what's really happening in Iran- whether it's just a case of contesting the election resluts or whether the protests are an indication of deeper underlying issues within that society.Whatever the reasons,we must not adopt the approach that most Iranians are inferior , backward people who are incapable of handling their own issues.Because of the supposed nuclear threat, too often Iranians have been grouped together as a 'mad' society hell bent on detroying everything that western democracy stands for.Nothing is further from the truth.
Iran appears to be going through a period of change. Let Iranians decide for themselves what they want. Other countries who do not have the interests of Iranians at heart should stay out of the picture. But it's not an ideal world and it would be very sad for Iran if the current situation makes it vulnerable to changes imposed by other countries, even military attacks. This will be tragic.
Hi All, an Iranian here.
My call is to my friends who are asking for factual evidence of fraud, and compare Iranian elections to American elections.
1- Right. There is not factual evidence, but how can you provide it when the electoral authorities deny requests for the detailed information about the ballots? First the give the overall votes, then they release the detailed numbers for cities (after 3 days of protests) and they would go no further to give information about each box. Why?
2- Based on the election law, each candidate has the right to have a delegate for each voting box, in all of the stages, from casing to counting. Based on “documented evidence” more than 50% of the boxes did not have any delegate because of hinders that the authorities made.
3- Yes, you don’t know the vote of people ex-ante. Correct me if I am wrong, but you would have guessed with a plausible accuracy that Obama doesn’t lose the vote of black males by 60-40 margin. This is exactly similar to Mousavi loosing Tabriz.
All you say, is that based on the election results, we have more reason not doubt AN won. You falsify the reasoning of the skeptics because of non existence of factual evidence of fraud. Now I ask you this. Can anybody give me factual evidence that the election was right? The authorities are chosen by AN. The guardian body (the supervisory authority) has literally supported him in the campaign season, and the supreme leader clearly favors him. You tell me, how can you NOT doubt this election?
Please look at Ahmadinejad's face as he was casting his vote.He was just a perfet looser.That night I was awake and checking different sites, in at leat 3 pro Gov sites they declared the Ahmadinejad victory ,by 2:00 AM.For "me" and many many..Iranians this was just a DIRTY coupe, they NOT only have stolen oure votes BUT beyond that :OUR DIGNITY.
Iran election from computer programmers aspect:
http://www.cafewebmaster.com/iran-elections-php-computer-language
very cool post
I really like your blog and I wanted you to know about our new website, timelines.com, where we've started a timeline about the 2009 Iranian elections at http://timelines.com/topics/2009-iranian-presidential-election. Our idea is to create an interactive historical record of anything and everything, based on specific events that combine to form timelines. We're trying to achieve a sort of user-created multimedia encyclopedia, in which no event is too big and no event is too small, and where each event can contain various types of resources, such as video, images, maps, etc. It's also a good way to direct traffic to your blog because your events will pop up along with anything else that's thematically related.
Hi, please check out my song, "Allahu Akbar" about Iran written for peace, hope, justice, solidarity and love.
http://www.myspace.com/tommydeazy
Well, someone spread the link to the CBC, so I'll return the favour and comment here.
Your theory of the MOI being able to just make up the numbers falls down on one simple fact. The votes were counted at the polling stations, by some 40,000 people. And there is a paper trail of each of these counts, with multiple copies. Add in that many of these counts were emailed or texted in on election night (generating electronic trails that could be intercepted, or produced as evidence) and you realise that unless you think none of the tens of thousands of people with such evidence is tempted by the idea of citizenship in another country, as well as fame or money, and that on that night the CIA's and Mossad's electronic intercept branches were on holiday, that theory has more holes than substance.
Iran Council certifies the victory and UN congratulates Ahmadinejad, despite massive opposition protests. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad keeps power but loses legitimacy.
2009-09-07
What now for Iran?
Ahmadinejad’s opponents, both domestic and foreign, did their best to discredit and malign his decisive election victory and deny him the moral legitimacy to further his political agenda. They succeeded in part, but time is on the President of Iran’s side, note Reza Esfandiari and Yousef Bozorgmehr.
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=34152
For progress at WTC site,Alan J.Gerson expanded residential grant programs to include public housing and Mitchell-Lama tenants and gave business assistance programs to include small mom-and-pop stores...
To support him, please vote for him on coming District 1 election
Please visit his website...
http://www.gerson2009.com/main.cfm?actionId=globalShowStaticContent&screenKey=cmpContent&htmlKey=issues&s=gerson
Post a Comment
<< Home