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Total number of comments: 47 (since 2013-11-28 15:36:08)

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  • How a Bill Becomes Law (George Carlin)
    • Well, this is all nice that we all agree with what he's saying--and let me assure you, the younger generation has already seen this--I first saw it up on YouTube many years ago, and I, being an old fart already, am surely far behind the curve--but when we, including Carlin, get down to specifics, such as who the "they" are who doesn't care about "us," and we're forced to try to name some names about who is who, and who and what are doing what to who, in the blink of an eye we'll all just fall back into our left and right camps and end up blaming the other guy.

  • Top Ten Ways the US Government will Smear, Slight Whistleblower Edward Snowden
  • Qaddafi's Arms Flooding Middle East from Libya
  • US Drone Campaign in Pakistan: Amazing Infographic (Serle)
  • Taming Capitalism Gone Wild (Bill Moyers Interviews)
    • Yes, let's dismantle the current system. return the currency to the federal government, end corporate welfare and bailouts, reduce many forms of regulation, get the government out of the markets, drastically cut spending, including drastic cuts in military spending, so taxation can be reduced, putting wealth back in people's pockets, stimulating saving to create real capital as opposed to the phoney capital we have now, and thereby create a new system we've never tried before called capitalism. Wolff, being an educated economist, is disingenuous in his use of the term capitalism. He knows we live in a corporatist system, not a capitalist one, and he should stop playing that sleight of hand.

  • Alex Jones, Gun control, and White Terrorism
  • Abraham Lincoln on the Purpose of Government (Or He Wouldn't be in GOP Today)
    • "To secure to each laborer the whole product of his labor, or as nearly as possible, is a worthy object of any good government.”

      This is a very loaded statement, and until someone can document what this younger Lincoln had in mind when he says "to secure," then there's really no political philosophy you can yet definitively associate this statement with.

  • Tina Fey tells off Republicans Todd Akin, Joe Walsh and Richard Mourdock (Video)
    • The thing you have to really be concerned with is the fact that this is supposedly a representative government.

  • America's 9/11 response subverted our values, liberties (Cole @ Detroit News)
    • Yes, our War on Terror has devastated sovereign nations on other side of the world and has created thousands of casualties of the enemy, of Americans, and "collateral damage." Our War on Drugs, and our drug policies, have devastated sovereign nations next door, and in our geopolitical neighborhood, and has created thousands of casualties of the enemy, of Americans, and "collateral damage," including thousands of casualties within our own borders, not to mention also the devastation to families and souls, domestic and abroad. So, just exactly where is the enemy?

  • Labor Day Question: Are you Better off than You were in 1970?
    • "Please explain how one person having some money and wealth prohibits another person from getting money and wealth."

      You're joking, right? By offshoring jobs and industries, and by unfairly cornering markets and resources, especially via the policies of a complicit political system beholden to one's wealth.

  • Uygur: Paul Ryan Created the Deficit
    • The only thing I find farcical here is the idea that you can estimate how big the deficit would be if those bills hadn't been passed. Such a calculation is pure fantasyland and thereby, a false argument. Our elected representatives on both sides of the aisle hate a vacuum. Take away their ability to spend over revenues, and only then could you calculate a genuine hypothetical fiscal situation to compare to.

  • Top Ten differences between White Terrorists and Others
    • Several weeks before they found good leads? Um, McVeigh was arrested within 90 minutes, although on other charges, and quickly linked with the bombing, and Nichols turned himself in two days later, and both were charged with the bombing shortly afterward. They arrested and questioned a Jordanian-American, but he was soon cleared of any involvement. Because of the similarities in modus operandi to the 1993 WTC bombing, is it really so unconscionable that the FBI would thoroughly investigate the possibility of a Muslim terrorist link? The media played a Muslim hypothesis for awhile, as did friends of mine, until it was pretty securely pinned on McVeigh and Nichols. When I first heard of the bombing, my first thought was home grown terrorism. Previous to the bombing, the rise of home grown militias, and the great angers behind some of them, was one of the big topics in the nation.

  • Lemurs are the Species most threatened with Extinction
  • You Always Knew it, but Now . . .
    • An entire political movement has NOT had the wool pulled over their eyes. This is just another in the long list of attempts to tell Paul supporters that they've been duped. Rand Paul is NOT Ron Paul. Rand is at the beginning of his political career and is making politically strategic moves. Ron is near the end of his career and is maintaining his strict adherence to the principles he has espoused all along. Rand is NOT a candidate for the Presidency. The Liberty Movement continues to gain traction, steady and sure, with Ron, not Rand, still at the helm. For a probable understanding of Rand's political strategy see here:
      link to youtube.com

      Rand has disagreed with his father on a few important topics, most especially foreign policy. He has not kept this a secret, nor the fact that he would endorse the Republican nominee. There is no surprise. The Ron Paul supporters' goals and messages are still the same. End the wars, bring the troops home, restore civil liberties, reduce spending, end the bailouts, move toward free market Capitalism, return to a sound monetary policy, audit the Fed, end the Fed, on and on. There are a million secrets in high places not even close to being opened...yet.

  • Top Ten Silver Linings for Democrats in Wisconsin Outcome
    • @Michael Alan, sorry, you'll not find me on the side that generally bashes trade unions. The rise of the power of trade unions was one of the most important and necessary developments of the 20th C.. Public unions, on the other hand, are an entirely different situation because of the source of the income and the nature of the service, and the idea that we should allow the sleight-of-hand of simply transferring the employer/employee relationships of the private sector to the public sector is an egregious violation of the public trust. I've got a high spirit from the Left with a like mind on the subject:
      link to presidency.ucsb.edu

      As for "illegal for businesses to band together to set prices," as you probably know, there are many who argue that anti-trust laws do not work, do not actually benefit the consumer, and on the contrary, are used by the large to crush the small. I still sit on the fence on that one, but all these questions could be neither here nor there as we live in an age of such great crimes, games, and absurdities that are so far from free-market Capitalism and have so many violations on personal liberty that both Adam Smith and Thomas Jefferson have for a long time been generating enough electricity from all their rotations in their graves to light bright red stoplights across the whole nation.

    • I feel like I've entered the Bizarro world. Suddenly I'm giving ripostes arguing for globalization and diminishing wages to the depths of those in robust economies. Globalization is the greatest threat to freedom in the modern age. If you crave it, heaven help you. Executives and shareholders have to endure the same race to the bottom with their Chinese counterparts? Are you aware that more than 10% of the world's billionaires are in the People's Republic of China? There may be more free market Capitalism in communist China now than there is in the USA. Your other nonsensical statements lead me to believe that you do not understand how a business enterprise works.

    • Nope, you're absolutely correct. The majority of states are grappling with large, debilitating budget shortfalls and are responding to the crisis by making deep cuts in projects and services--typically affecting the most needy of all--and by raising taxes, fees, fines, and penalties--which have no deforming affect on the entire labor market--and are banking on a fantasy-land of projected sustained private growth in order to get back to pre-crisis status quo levels in some vague sustained marvelous recovery future, and this shortfall problem has nothing to do with state public employee compensation and collective bargaining.

    • @SUPER390 You've got it backwards. It's the overcompensation of the government workers that deforms the entire labor market, and that's what this conflict is all about.

  • Romney: "I'm not concerned about the very poor."
    • The middle class is continuing to shrink. Income has been stagnant for 40 years. It's the collapse of the middle class that is the greatest threat to this country in many ways. Who are these people who are swelling the poor numbers? A lot of them are people who have fallen out of the middle class. Romney is saying his focus is to bring back the middle class as opposed to focusing on the poor. I don't get it, why is this such a controversial statement? He says the safety net is there for the poor. He is correct, right? Welfare, food stamps, social security, unemployment insurance. Shall we add planned parenthood? How is the federal government going to help the poor? One major way is to bring back the middle class. Where does giving to the poor come from? Is that the function of the federal government exclusively? Giving has traditionally been from a middle class that has disposable income to share at a local level through local institutions where, very possibly, the resources are doled out most efficiently. Where are new jobs for the poor going to come from. Mostly, we would hope, from a private economy that rises out of a prospering middle class. I'm no fan of Romney, but I think this is just a cheap shot at him. He covered his bases in these statements. On the other hand, if you want to start pointing at Wall Street, and more importantly, monetary policy, as the source of the increasing poor and shrinking middle class, then I'm all behind you. Yeah, let's talk reality. Let's talk about why the middle class is shrinking and a poor is increasing. Am I concerned about the poor--sure--but as a wise man once said, "the poor you will have always." A middle class, on the other hand, no necessarily so.

  • Iran Hype undermined by Obama Administration Admissions
    • Same old, same old, with the half-informed, ignorant attacks on Paul. Us Paul supporters get these every time and everywhere, and it's getting pretty old and tiresome to have to counter them in their long successions. The first place to start, of course, is here, the greatest threat to national security and world stability:
      link to youtube.com
      All brought to you by that wonderful fiat monetary policy coupled with Keynesian philosophy, and I wonder which developed nations you're talking about where it's working so well. Europe--nuff said? China, Canada, and Australia with their pumped-up balloons. Japan with it's "two lost decades?" Oh, of course, if there's problems it because those central banks aren't getting the Keynesian philosophy correct--like they're capable of doing anything else. You're right, though, about how people's fears are based on some complete ignorance of the powers of the President, and the idea that a President could return the government to an 18th Century size and eliminate all the safeguards put in place by the federal government--as if, this is what the man actually wants--another half-informed fallacy. I'll tell you one safeguard he has fought for strenuously--the safeguards against the enslavement of the U.S. taxpayer. One can look to his voting record and to his arguments against Graham-Leach-Bliley for examples of that. Unbelievably, that evil would-be unrestrained-Capitalism-enabler didn't vote for that bill, neither did he vote for the CMFA. Yeah, he talks a good talk but doesn't get things accomplished when the majority is always intent on the opposite. It's pretty hard to get things passed in Congress when your proposals run contrary to the nefarious purposes of the powers that be. We get the Patriot Act, and things like that, instead. That's what gets passed in Congress, not things like auditing the FED to see what's going on with our money and good credit and the heart of the financial crime syndicate. But I don't think Juan wants this thread to turn into a heated Paul debate, so I'll point you to this recent article that spits out the usual Paul-basher preconceptions and then suggest you read the many comments at the bottom of that article that counter his arguments:
      link to blogs.independent.co.uk

    • Wow, I look around at this thread and wonder who you all are going to vote for? Which of the candidates is talking about pulling back from the Middle East, and stop beating the war drums about Iran, and end the use of foreign policy as a tool for the moneyed elite? Only one I hear saying stuff like that is that non-mentionable name. The guy they call the kook. The guy who has the audacity to say things like end the bailouts--including the secret bailouts,let the TBTF fail, bring the budget under control and actually genuinely reduce spending, admit that we're bankrupt and find a way to clean the debt off the books that is strangling not only the national economy, but the world economy, bring the troops home, bring the currency back into the possession of the American people, etc. etc. etc.. You know, THAT guy, who I don't see mentioned here at all, either, even though he's the only one talking a lot like many of you are talking.

  • Three Republican Bears and none Just Right
    • Viable 3rd party candidate? I thought his name was Ron Paul? Ron Paul IS the libertarian candidate for the Presidency. Bill Still, the Libertarian candidate, says he'd be perfectly happy to have Paul as President, especially if he can convince Paul of a better alternative than the gold standard for a non-Federal Reserve American dollar--the gold standard being the only thing of substance that the two disagree about. Don't forget, Paul was the Libertarian candidate for President in 1988. This time it seems, it's either the GOP wakes up and nominates Paul, or he goes off on his own and truly threatens both Obama and Romney, both of who could lose to Paul if Paul can successfully distance himself from those notorious newsletters.

      Yes, those few percentages. If it wasn't for Gore taking those percentages away from Nader, we might have avoided a war AND a bunch of bankrupting bailouts, and the prisons might now be full of a bunch of Wall Street crooks instead of their being still on the tiller of the ship being steered toward yet another cataract into sovereign obliteration.

  • Mayor Bloomberg and Occupy Wall Street by the Numbers
    • Juan, what's the significance of the 9.6% rate at which the volume of commercial and industrial bank loans grew? How does that percentage compare with previous measurements?

  • Best of the Web on Widening Wall Street Protests
    • In 1971, the average working husband could support a family of four. Today, both parents working struggle to accomplish the same thing--and that on top of meeting the payments on their numerous debt obligations. It's been all downhill since 1971. That same year Richard Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard, ending the Bretton Woods system, putting the nation, and in effect, the world, on an entirely fiat monetary system, and declared himself a Keynesian. That fiat currency system, along with it's oversight by the Federal Reserve, has done nothing but whittle away at the middle class, until today, we have reached the greatest disparity of rich and poor in the developed nations. I hear that the OWS may soon move their operation to the doorstep of the Fed. Finally, the battle may be taken to the heart of the kingdom.

      For a rundown of the collapsing middle class, this woman lays it out pretty clearly:
      link to youtube.com;

  • Steve Jobs: Arab-American, Buddhist, Psychedelic Drug User, and Capitalist World-Changer
    • Many great visions came out of the influence of LSD--the double helix being one of the most famous.

    • Yes, indeed. And a great many, especially on the left, need an education about the difference between Capitalism and Corporatism, and how Corporatism, not Capitalism, holds the reins of power now, not only in politics on both sides of the aisle, but in the media, as well, making a kind of Wall-Street-piracy-enabling "conservatism" nearly all-pervasive.

    • "Contemporary conservatism has given us over-paid and under-regulated financiers who add no real value to anything, unlike Jobs."

      Wow, I wasn't aware that the team of Bill Clinton, Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, and Barney Frank were classified as "contemporary conservatism."

      Like SomeGuy points out, Jobs greatest talent was not at inventing, but in recognizing where and how to corner and flourish the new high-potential demand of someone else's invention. Mr. Buddhist was a smart Capitalist who was also well noted for his lack of philanthropy. As the story goes, Ronald Wayne--the often-forgotten co-founder of Apple--and Steve Jobs spent many late nights in conversation, sometimes debating business ethics. Wouldn't it be fascinating to have a transcript of those conversations. Steve was, without a doubt, a great, driven visionary--but, liberal or conservative?

  • Lindsey "Dr. Strangelove" Graham & War with Pakistan
    • Juan, you could have greatly edited this post down to simply "The US does not have a prayer of succeeding in Afghanistan...madness." That says it all. Everything in between is neither here no there.

  • Paul, Santorum and the Sixth War (on Iran)
    • Libertarianism is an "enlightened" political philosophy, meaning you and society as a whole actually have to understand it to make it happen, meaning you have an informed self-respect and mutual respect, meaning you don't allow yourself to become a serf. One of the hyperbolic catch phrases that some Libertarians throw out is, wage labor is slavery. In a populace that understands personal liberty, there will be a different relationship with employers, no matter the circumstances. Remove the sense of personal liberty and remove the sense that your labor is personal property, then you remove the rudder of the individual and that individual can easily end up as a serf.

    • This post and the majority of comments--except for Mike's--scares me because of the repeated simplistic, often ridiculous characterizations of Libertarians and Libertarianism. Libertarians are a very diverse group, barely a political party because of the diversity. Libertarians as a group are hard pressed to come up with a united definition of Libertarianism because of the many angles that people are playing at under the term. Even Ron Paul and his son don't agree on many issues. Unfortunately, when you've got such a diverse group, some of the simplistic characterizations people come up with about Libertarians will probably have a few adherents professing themselves Libertarian, and many of those may actually be Anarchists, or worse yet, Republicans (haha). Ron Paul is a Republican because, as he says over and over, he believes in the Republican party as it once was, not as it is today, and that he hopes his influence will help bring the Republicans back to what they are supposed to be about--limited government, non-interventionist foreign policy, and defenders of the Constitution. The impetus for this discussion on Libertarians was Ron Paul, so you might want to listen to the man himself and see how much you actually disagree with:
      link to youtube.com;
      His speech starts at the 5 minute mark. Listen to that speech and you will understand why the man's support is so infectious, and why he wins all those straw polls.

      As for the topic of the big, bad corporations, I'll point out that we do not live in a free market capitalist economy. Far from it. We live in a managed economy with artificial interest rates, subsidies, and bailouts. In a free market, bad guys, gamblers, and those who overreach will most often eventually fail. In our managed economy, the monsters don't fail. They're "too big to fail." They're rewarded, by both Republican and Democratic administrations, and by a semi-secret, quasi-governmental banking cartel (read big, bad corporations) called the Federal Reserve.

  • The Irrelevance of the Knights in a Global Society
    • "most rapes happen in big cities"

      I'm no expert, but I believe that is part and parcel of the popular misconception of rape. Most rapes are committed by someone the victim knows, including friends, relatives, and nuclear family members. Throw in date rapes, and then you see that those rapes where someone yanks a girl off a sidewalk into a dark alley is actually a small percentage of the crime. Most rapes are most likely still not reported. I'd like to see any kind of analysis that points to city populations being any more rape prone than rural populations. Also more likely, a Muslim man is more likely to rape a Muslim female than a non-Muslim female, going by what I just mentioned. Anyone want to hazard to guess whether or not Mr. Breivik has committed rape in his past and what race the victim was and whether the victim would have reported it? Of course, having gunned down scores, complaining about others raping is simply the ultimate depth of pathetic.

  • Rudolph: US Inequality Quiz
    • This economic rundown scares me as it all comes from an "inside the box" perspective and people will fall into its little world of conservatives and liberals battling it out on the plane of equalities. This is the world of Paul Krugman. There's so many misdirections in this rundown, it's hard to know even how to begin to comment on it. If you'd like a place to start with a broader perspective on what the situation is really all about, this series is as good as any I've seen to begin your education:
      link to youtube.com

  • The Secret Patriot Act
    • Well, that's the whole point. There's something called the Tea Party movement but who they are no one has the official authority to say for sure. Is Sarah Palin in the party? Sarah Palin and Rand Paul? Very strange bedfellows. Are Paul or his father actually Tea Partyers? People got elected by the Tea Party movement--supposedly--but were the people elected Tea Partyers, or were they mostly just politicians riding an opportunity? In the case of the Tea Party, wasn't it just a lot of Republican opportunists? Politicians are a breed unto themselves. They mostly all disappoint in a similar fashion. They just dress in different colors. There are exceptions drowned out in the crowd.

    • Juan, how were you able to write that first paragraph while "Tea Party favorite Rand Paul" was the only one keeping the renewal from passage by filibustering in the Senate? Once again, you're going to need to explain just exactly who you are referring to when you speak of the Tea Party. You might be better off thinking of the Tea Party as something like an insurgency. Just who are we talking about when we refer to the insurgency in Iraq?

  • Saving What's Left of the Constitution
    • The beginning of the end of the Constitution started in 1913 with the 16th Amendment and the Federal Reserve Act. It's been a slow, steady, coordinated downhill toward Fascism ever since. It's like that strategy for catching wild pigs where you place some bait and every night you put a new part of a fence around the bait until after many night you've circled the bait, created a gate, and on that last night you leave the gait open and the pigs come for the bait yet again, and you simply tap the gate closed. Voila, slavery once again.

  • Sea Water for Honolulu Air Conditioning
    • Burton Hurton, you're funny. I'm glad to see that the Hawaii Visitor's Bureau has done its job of spreading the image of paradise, which Hawaii is, so please come visit and spend lots of money. Most homes in Hawaii do simply open their windows. The trade winds are a great air conditioning, but the trade winds aren't around all the time, although most of the time, and other times the warm winds come up out of the south, and when there's no wind, it gets hot, and besides, it's a tropical sun which'll toast you in any clime given the chance. The area in the proposal is downtown Honolulu with it's modern landscape of skyscrapers. Honolulu is a major U.S. metropolis with a million inhabitants. If you want to insure paradise on your visit, plan your stay mostly on the outer islands--Maui, Kauai, and the Big Island. You won't be disappointed. Usually, it's the best weather on the planet.

      There was a project once where they pumped cold water from the depths to create a cycle with warm water from the surface which turned a turbine and created electricity. I don't know whatever happened to that project. I think there was some environmental impact concern in that one.

  • Romney Haunted by Ghosts of Romney Past
    • Don't worry, Romney is no one to pay attention to. He is already being bumped off the stage. Donald Trump is going to buy the nomination. The military industrial complex likes him a lot more. God help us all.

  • Ron Paul: We've Already Declared War on Iran
    • Um, Rand Paul is Ron Paul's son and is a Senator-elect and has not yet held public office. Ron Paul is a Congressman and Libertarian Constitutionalist and one of the only voices of sanity on the Hill.

  • Scary Tea Party Compilation
    • Yeah, yeah, we've all watched the route to Boston harbor get co-opted by the right wing whackos, most notably when Palin started rearing her hoary head at their rallies, but that's not where it all started. It started with the sense of being ROBBED! That's the foundation of the Tea Party and the Republicans and far right just seized the opportunities and are now cashing in on it. The highwaymen took over, but a lot of us with the original sympathies saw that coming long long ago, and are not surprised at all at where it's all gone to in some of its arenas. But guess what? Despite the co-opting, it's still the same situation. As a good Democrat once said, "It's the economy, stupid!" Trying to solve a problem caused by massive debt with massive debt is the image of Crazytown in my book, far outstripping anything I see in that video. Thank God there was at least a Tea Party. There should have been riots in the streets. At least, the French and the Greeks get that right.

  • Palin Fear-Mongers on Iran, Sharia
    • Is there a greater idiot on the political stage? I think not, although there's always others that will be vying for the position. Sarah is the anointed queen of the lunacy.

  • Witches, Exorcisms, and Billionaire Pickpockets
    • Cenk did not grow up in the 60's or 70's--like us Dr. Cole. I don't know about you, but there was quite a lot of experimentation going on in my teenage years amongst everyone around me. Acid trips, bongs, communes, free love, Carlos Castaneda's books, Timothy Leary, Ram Das, Hare Krishnas, Moonies, etc., etc.--how long a list can we write? Your teenage years are very susceptible to your peer influence. Some guys would have taken her drug induced rave instead---whatever might work, if your a teenage boy, know what I mean? I emerged out of my teenages not attached to any of the extremes, although I "dabbled" along with most of my peers. Let's not cast stones here. She didn't join a coven--that's a significant statement--and I'm wiser having experienced it, is another significant statement. My god, she's actually up front and honest about it. Now let's discuss the dabbling by those on the left--the non-inhalers--their associations and their forthrightness. Same old stories--it's a three ring circus--right, left, and everyone in between. Some just make better clowns.

  • The Speech President Obama Should Give about the Iraq War (But Won't)
    • Thank you for reminding me that George W. Bush was very possibly the worst President in the history of the U.S.A.. He is certainly in the top three worst. Hopefully, history will judge his administration rightly for what it was--an abomination.

  • Glenn Beck's 'I have a Dream Speech'
    • I have a dream that people couldn't care less what an egomaniac talk show entertainer has to say. I didn't listen to Beck's speech, I don't want to listen to Beck's speech, I don't want to see the faces of the people in his crowd. In other words, I don't put a nickel into the machine that makes his plastic head spin around.

  • An Israeli Attack on Iran would reduce Barack Obama to a One-Term President
    • Obama is already a one-term President, and it will probably have NOTHING to do with Iran, and very little to do with foreign policy. In case you haven't noticed, some of his approval ratings are right down there with Nixon on the day he resigned, and if anyone is waiting for a genuine recovery and improved unemployment figures before November 2012, you need to learn some real basics about economics. The general public will not shake off the feeling of being betrayed and sold-out by Obama because they will continue to be reminded of it everyday in the most personal ways, even if he's able to conger up a couple of happy days now and then. If there's a Democrat in the White House in 2013, it most likely will be Hillary Clinton, elected to give Obama the boot.

  • Rudolph: Can You Pass the Terrorism Quiz?
    • True or False: A Republican Presidential candidate in 2008 made the claim that Islamic terrorists "attack us because we've been over there" and then was shot down for that statement by another Rudolf to thunderous applause.

      True:
      link to youtube.com

      A lone voice amongst the elephants.

  • Burning the Qur'an? 'Wherever they burn books, they will in the end Burn Human Beings'
    • Now I ask you, as an analogy, would reading the Bible give you an understanding of the fundamentalist Christians, or even the Christian world? I think not. This is one of the fallacies of academics. Burning the Quran is no more of an attack on the Quran than attacking the Twin Towers was an attack on the Twin Towers. For the attackers, what's inside the symbols will be nothing but an annoyance. As for the young, they need to be forced to read the Quran as much as they need to be forced to read the little red book of Mao, or the Bible, for that matter. Maybe the only place to be forced to read any of them would be in a psychology or political science class.

  • I want My Country back from Big Oil
    • Whenever talking energy the facts of this lecture should always be kept in mind:

      link to youtube.com

      In the desperate scramble for energy resources--and other resources--going into this century, the nations of the world are not going to be nice at all. Alternative energies as they are understood now have no potential to replace fossil fuels. Price is going to affect demand, and the standard of living will go down significantly for everyone in the industrialized nations. That's how the energy problem is going to solve itself. The diplomatic problems caused by the scramble will probably solve themselves in a much less pretty fashion.

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